Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Conscription is slavery, and many conscripts will consider themselves to have a moral obligation to resist slavery. On the contrary, conscription, and armies consisting of the population of a country in general (as opposed to mercenary armies) are a democratic achievement of (among a few other factors) the French Revolution. In the actual times of slavery, e.g. in Ancient Greece and Rome it was free men that first…
"as opposed to it being professional soldiers ready to be used against the people" Things have changed a lot since then, especially with radio and television. Conscription is no longer a democratic achievement, you can brainwash people to go against anyone you want.
Sweden brings back military conscription
341–350 of 418 posts
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
connection via land to sea, later better positioned for potential Lithuania to Finland ops
Again, why take Lithuania to Finland? Whats the purpose?
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
it gives political momentum-as did Hitler's blitzkrieg in Poland Military wise you buy large buffer between US ground & air forces based around there.
If he wanted a buffer he could have easily taken over Ukraine in the fall of 2014 and spring of 2015. Both times the rebels routed Ukrainian army and the road to Kiev was essentially clear. Reinstalling the puppet president would have been easy. Not to mention that during the coup itself there were reports of Ukrainian generals sending envoys to Moscow, seeking aid and patronage to throw a counter coup and either rei…
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
A credible deterrent in 2020 is not 200k dudes with guns. It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines. Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.
You would be interested in the Winter War between Finland and Soviet Russia in 1939. Finland absolutely outperformed the Red Army to such an extreme that it convinced Hitler invading Soviet Russia was not going to be a problem at all. Nothing more entertaining in my mind than Finns chucking logs into tank treads to disable an entire armored division. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
They quickly learned, and in the followup war(s), Finland was thoroughly beat, and lost 1/10 of it's territory.
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Conscription is slavery I abhor hyperbole. Slavery is the legal ownership of one person over another person and their progeny. Since they are property, slaves have absolutely no rights or any access to the legal system. You commanding officer cannot rape or kill you with impunity. He/She cannot force you to do fight with another conscript to the death. Conscripts also get paid, while slaves do not and are well fed…
> He/She cannot force you to do fight with another conscript to the death. But, of course, he can force a conscript to fight an adversary to the death.
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#346How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
A credible deterrent in 2020 is not 200k dudes with guns. It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines. Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.
Why would Russia want to invade Sweden? This is political fearmongering and bullshit.
This makes the country a path of least resistance. If you are NATO trying to plan for defending the baltic states from Russia, you must plan for stopping them from taking Gotland.
So the first goal of improving Sweden's defense is to make that better.
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any citizen of any modern state, is at least, to some extent, a slave.
Hogwash. A slave is property. Inherent to slavery is some form of dehumanization, being somehow below the ruling class...a subhuman. You are not the pet of the state. You are not regarded as less than human. This is hyperbole. You may not like being subject to taxes and laws, but you have remedies, such as renouncing your citizenship or leaving for an area not governed by a state.
Yes, and so are citizens of a state.
"Inherent to slavery is some form of dehumanization."
No. The definition of a slave (first hit on google) is "a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them." In ancient times, people who lost wars may have been subjugated as slaves, but there was no pretense that they were less human. I think you might be thinking of racial slavery, which was inspired by a belief that other races were subhumans.
"being somehow below the ruling class"
Even ordinary citizens, who may be able to vote and do all that fun civic stuff, may still be below the ruling class. As Lysander Spooner said, "A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years."
> "but you have remedies, such as renouncing your citizenship"
But for US expatriation, you will have to pay an exit tax as well as continue to pay income taxes, so no you aren't able to be free of bondage. Getting to pick from a new master on a different tax farm doesn't mean you are not a slave.
> "leaving for an area not governed by a state"
If there were such a place, then pretty soon, some state will likely come in and claim you for their tax revenue. Considering that states make this threat means that your relationship with them is not voluntary. Also, the "you are free to leave" argument doesn't take into account the fact that you never voluntarily entered into a relationship with them to begin with. It doesn't mean you were not a slave while under bondage. Effective slave masters realized that by giving their subjects some freedoms, that they were better off. But just because you have some freedoms again doesn't mean that you are not a slave. You are still the legal property of the state and forced to obey them in matters which the state desires you to obey.
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You are very much in the minority. The vast majority of people have some amount of ethnic, religious, or nationalist pride. 1. There's a difference between what's popular & what's ethical. 2. Since we're being intuitive here: Throwing a bunch of amateur teenagers at the problem doesn't seem like the best solution. It could be a cheap solution. A type of hidden tax which taxes the lives of people who have no way to…
> There's a difference between what's popular & what's ethical. I can certainly agree with that. My citation of popularity was to defend conscription from exactly the kind of reasoning you describe: "No one really cares about national sovereignty and it's just a few suicidal wackjobs whose quixotic desires shouldn't impinge on the lives of us normal people." >2. Since we're being intuitive here: Throwing a bunch of a…
I'm not the OP. And that 'reasoning' is a gross perversion of what was said.
The OP didn't say no one cares. My reading of his comment was that no one should care. The OP also expresses his lack of care for such a situation.
> it's just a few suicidal wackjobs whose quixotic desires shouldn't impinge on the lives of us normal people
No one has said this, either.
> Surely you're not against universal suffrage!
The people who can't vote on the matter are the teenagers being conscripted. When the law was passed for their conscription, they were too young to vote. I hope that's adequately clear now.
Re: Sweden brings back military conscription
#350Has HN started to take political sides now?