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Sweden brings back military conscription

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#111

Post by rhblake »

carsongross wrote: post #8
vspecnur wrote: post #2

It's not like they havent been invaded already...

All joking aside, it will be interesting to see if refugees will tolerate conscription. One quarter of the population (and a significantly higher percentage of the younger fighting age male population) is either foreign born or the child of someone foreign born. Conscription is always controversial and the questions of national identity that have in the past provided a social framework for supporting it are much fuzz…

The majority of foreign-born people in Sweden did not arrive as refugees. About half were born in Europe, with Finland - which is very similar in culture and also has conscription (as well as a much larger army) - being the most common country.

Source: http://www.statistikdatabasen.scb.se/pxweb/sv/ssd/START__BE_... (official gov't statistics)

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#112

Post by mzs »

yjgyhj wrote: post #80
mzs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside Stockholm: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/20/1413790933744_wps_... Also Sweden is has been aligning more with UK in particular lately and Russian media has noticed.

Getting a 404 error on that link. Mind resubmitting to Imgur?

It was the photo of the sub:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/19/sweden-search-...

Also there was a sighting in 2015 that I recall:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-submarine-idUSKCN0V...

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#113

Post by TorKlingberg »

I can give a bit of context. Mandatory military service in Sweden only ended in 2010, so this is not a huge change.

During the cold was period, almost all men did ~1 year of military service. After that it was a regular job, but in case of war everyone could be conscripted.

By the '90s it dropped to maybe 1/3 of young men. Everyone went to a 1-2 day testing session, and then some were selected. In practice, it became increasingly voluntary. Soldiers on peacekeeping missions in foreign countries are all volunteers.

In 2010 mandatory service was dropped completely. I think the Swedish military found it difficult to recruit enough after that, and the politicians now think the military has shrunk a bit too much. I don't think it will be a huge growth (that would cost money), but perhaps a return to early 2000's level. This time it includes women.

I am not a big fan of conscription, but I can somewhat accept it as long as it's strictly defensive. One good argument for it is that a conscript army is unlikely to stage a military coup in a democracy. If the soldiers are more or less random people, they will more or less support the elected government, at least a portion of them. But, as military power becomes more about technology than numbers, I suspect this argument becomes less important.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#114

Post by M_Grey »

rocky1138 wrote: post #81
DamnYuppie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need massive air and naval power to be very tough to attack. All you have to do is see the Afghan wars, both Russian and American, for great examples. They had no airforce and no need for naval forces. A large armed and mobile force is very able to put up solid resistance to pretty much anything you can throw at it save for nukes which will likely never be used.

> save for nukes which will likely never be used. save for nukes which will likely never be used, again .

>save for nukes which will likely never be used, again.

save for nukes which will be used the very instant a nuclear armed nation faces the prospect of brutal conquest by a hated enemy, or a last desperate stand to defend dwindling resources.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#115

Post by htns »

devopsproject wrote: post #93
thedevil wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

You are misinformed because you are reading propaganda. They won't be relaying their plans of that channel. Here are some recent events: russian planes flying into Swedish air space russian sub in water near Stockholm Norway beefing up their border troops etc.

Those are more like events that have been ongoing for decades. Russian airspace incursions aren't much of a signal. (see e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/full-list-of-... )

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#116

Post by ekianjo »

rocky1138 wrote: post #81
DamnYuppie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need massive air and naval power to be very tough to attack. All you have to do is see the Afghan wars, both Russian and American, for great examples. They had no airforce and no need for naval forces. A large armed and mobile force is very able to put up solid resistance to pretty much anything you can throw at it save for nukes which will likely never be used.

> save for nukes which will likely never be used. save for nukes which will likely never be used, again .

Good correction.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#117

Post by mzs »

zilean wrote: post #79
mzs wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia Today? It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.

Whats wrong with RT in general (besides funding) and this article in particular? > It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map. Why take this land? It does nothing strategically, has population that you need to subsidise, etc. Crimea allows Black Sea control. Kaliningrad effectively makes Baltic inner sea for Russia and if there ever would be any baltic act…

connection via land to sea, later better positioned for potential Lithuania to Finland ops

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#118

Post by mzs »

zilean wrote: post #110
kaitnieks wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latvia has a population you need to subsidize? What do you mean by that?

You cant just occupy country w/o sanctions, export/import chains breaking, you need to rebuild what would be inevitably destroyed during the invasion, etc.

Ukraine shows how much can be tolerated.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#119

Post by kaitnieks »

zilean wrote: post #79
mzs wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia Today? It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map.

Whats wrong with RT in general (besides funding) and this article in particular? > It would be nice for Russia to have a swath from Crimea to Dontesk up through Latvia, just look at a map. Why take this land? It does nothing strategically, has population that you need to subsidise, etc. Crimea allows Black Sea control. Kaliningrad effectively makes Baltic inner sea for Russia and if there ever would be any baltic act…

Regarding Kaliningrad - wouldn't it be way more convenient for Russia to have that patch joined to the main country?
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