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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#341

Post by wavefunction »

davidf18 wrote: post #284
davidf18 wrote: post #255

This is an article about 250 Disney of FL jobs that were displaced by H1-B Visa abuse. Trump was clearly against the abuse and spoke out against it. Rubio on the other hand was for tripling the number of Visas to 250,000 and had Disney as one of his major donors. Much of Silicon Valley wants to keep wages depressed and have more American unemployed by hiring more immigrant workers over using Americans. Many people sa…

Why was this downvoted? It would be helpful if someone stated the reason why. What is clear is that Trump represents American workers over the elites that want to depress wages. What is also clear is that Rubio was "bought" by Disney precisely because they wanted to depress American wages. Are these facts incorrect?

I don't know if you can claim as facts that Trump represents American workers over the elites or that Rubio was bought by Disney. Those are hypotheses and opinions that can only be strongly or poorly argued to the rest of us.

I would declaim your first contention of Trump favoring workers over wealthy elites, merely by the long sordid history of wage theft perpetrated by Trump[0].

The claim about Rubio needs more evidence to be considered a fact. I would agree, given the circumstantial evidence, but it wouldn't yet be a fact unless direct evidence could be presented.

[0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/digger/wp/2017/01/06/thi...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#342

Post by coleca »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #183
battlebot wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get "higher than average salary?" All the H1Bs I have known, and I have worked with hundreds of them over the years, have all been underpaid compared to market rates. Some were outright exploited by ridiculous middle man consulting arrangements consisting of multiple levels taking a percentage of the hourly from the actual workers. I have nothing against foreign workers, but if they are going to be allowe…

People with H1Bs at Google and Facebook make far, far more than the average in the US (3x average salary, 1.5x average SWE salary).

Google and Facebook are not employing the vast majority of H1B workers, the large BPO consulting firms like Wipro, CapGemini, Tata, Infosys, and Cognizant are (Source: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx). Just because Google treats their H1B employees well doesn't mean everyone does, it's a small sample.

My experience is more in line with the previous poster. The workers can be terribly treated, at the mercy of their sponsoring company, and underpaid. There is the constant threat that you can be sent back to India at any time if you don't tow the company line. Many of these folks have moved their lives and their families to the US for these jobs, so this is a very serious threat.

We had one extremely talented lead engineer from Wipro that was so overworked from 10-12 hour days in the office and then another 6-8 at home on calls w/his team in India that his hair literally started falling out from the stress and lack of sleep.

Let's not kid ourselves, H1B is a source of cheap(er) skilled labor that the tech firms love because they don't need to invest in training and can exercise a level of control over them. The company can reduce or eliminate the risk that the worker will quit for a better position, unlike if they took a US worker and spent the money to train their skills up. We all know salary is just a small part of the overall cost of recruiting and retaining talent.

Personally, I'm in favor of opening up the restrictions on immigration. I believe that immigration and growing a country's population is essential to the long term viability of a nation. From my personal experience, I've seen that the H1B program has been abused and distorted to the whims of the big consulting firms at the expense of the workers in the program.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#344

Post by gfody »

davidf18 wrote: post #255

This is an article about 250 Disney of FL jobs that were displaced by H1-B Visa abuse. Trump was clearly against the abuse and spoke out against it. Rubio on the other hand was for tripling the number of Visas to 250,000 and had Disney as one of his major donors. Much of Silicon Valley wants to keep wages depressed and have more American unemployed by hiring more immigrant workers over using Americans. Many people sa…

It's plain to see who's abusing the program thanks to the mandatory transparency. http://h1bdata.info look at Google & Microsoft - can you really hire software engineers in New York and San Francisco for 90-130k?

The average might be approaching low-market thanks to one or two high paid spots but the median is way, way low. Shady low.

On the other hand Facebook in Menlo Park, CA - these salaries look appropriate for the area and the spread is reasonable.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#345

Post by jack9 »

threeseed wrote: post #95
DougBTX wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply can't get enough local talent These things always need to be suffixed with "at price point x".

Sure. It's a nuanced discussion. It's not just about price. It's also about the various experience within the local talent pool. I still remember at Apple looking for WebObjects developers, finding none locally but dozens at Infosys. What exactly are companies supposed to do ? And companies like Infosys are often playing in specific, less sexy spaces i.e. enterprise J2EE, DBAs, System Administration etc whilst newer…

> Sure. It's a nuanced discussion.

Nope.

> It's not just about price. It's also about the various experience within the local talent pool.

Same thing. H1B just made them that way, with both metrics being in favor of the employer (except the vast majority of times the skillset is misrepresented).

The astroturfing by someone who has no experience with how H1B is used, is telling.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#346

Post by nickonline »

asavadatti wrote: post #306
kalleboo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In comparison, the visa (technically, "residency permit") scheme in Japan (widely viewed as a xenophobic, anti-immigrant country) is tied to the person. You get sponsored in by an employer in a field, and then your residency is tied to you being employed in that field. You can instantly turn around and quit that job and find another one in the same field. Policy is you have 30 [or was it 60?90? something like that] d…

H1B holders also have 60 days to find a new job after quitting/being fired from their old job. https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-fin...

Does the new job need to continue to sponsor under the H1B program? If so that's not comparable.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#347

Post by readme »

mattnewton wrote: post #324
smsm42 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how representative democracy works, in general. Direct democracy may work like that, but I don't see a way to run direct democracy on US federal scale, and even if there were a way, US is not one. In US system, there's debate, there's vote, representatives are elected and then they have power to act (within the bounds of law, of course, and within limitations like due process, procedures, judicial review,…

I'm talking about the checks like judicial review, which is not being enforced in dulles currently as CBT continues to bar lawyers from visiting with detainees in violation of court order. I am talking about the disregard for Geneva refugee convention the United States was committed to. I am talking about looping in people are supposed to enforce this and having a common sense discussion with them about what it means…

So can you explain to me, how this is not democracy, if Trump was elected, democratically?

Without saying the election was rigged by Russia.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#348

Post by grzm »

794CD01 wrote: post #301
serge2k wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dictatorial and authoritarian are not necessarily negatives Yes they fucking are. > we knew that's how this candidate wanted to operate and voted for it anyway Most didn't vote for him.

Most didn't according to a metric that's not the metric that is actually used to select the president and thus candidates and parties don't try to optimize for. As for the other point, agree to disagree.

Use "elected" instead of "voted" in the future and you're more likely to avoid this kind of semantic distraction in the future.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#349

Post by what_ever »

nickonline wrote: post #346
asavadatti wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B holders also have 60 days to find a new job after quitting/being fired from their old job. https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-publishes-fin...

Does the new job need to continue to sponsor under the H1B program? If so that's not comparable.

What exactly do you think is sponsoring H1B? The company just pays a one time fee for applying for your permit which is negligible compared to how much engineers are paid. They don't have ongoing expenses related to work permit.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#350

Post by [deleted] »

basurihn wrote: post #337
eropple wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to "agree to disagree" about literal numbers . You are literally and inarguably wrong . There is a difference.

Literal numbers that are unproportionally skewed by two overpowered population centers. It isn't just about proportionally capturing the interest of the individual voter. That individual voter in each state represents a sum total of different interests than a individual voter in another region of the States. California and New York have different exports and interests than say, Wisconsin. You would feel quite differe…

[deleted]
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