Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 371 posts

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#281

Post by mavelikara »

davidf18 wrote: post #265

If you read the entire article, you can see that President Trump is on the side of the American IT worker and President Obama was working against Americans by allowing more immigrants to work here outside the legal H1-B Visa system through an executive order. People seem to think that Trump is the bad guy and Obama the good guy, but then how do you justify Obamas actions? Trump is right. Obama is wrong. It was Trump…

From the article you linked:

    "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are 
    unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000."
    
    The INA states that no country may receive more than 7 percent of the total number of green 
    cards available in a given year. The executive action would bypass the INA per-country caps 
    for H-1B workers, essentially providing them with a fast track to U.S. citizenship.
This is a misunderstanding. There are no extra green cards handed out. All this provision does is that it removes the 7-percent-per-country quota restriction. This restriction is unfair to applicants from populous countries, and the administration was planning to remove those. Please don't spread misinformation here on HN.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#282

Post by davidf18 »

mavelikara wrote: post #281
davidf18 wrote: post #265

If you read the entire article, you can see that President Trump is on the side of the American IT worker and President Obama was working against Americans by allowing more immigrants to work here outside the legal H1-B Visa system through an executive order. People seem to think that Trump is the bad guy and Obama the good guy, but then how do you justify Obamas actions? Trump is right. Obama is wrong. It was Trump…

From the article you linked: "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." The INA states that no country may receive more than 7 percent of the total number of green cards available in a given year. The executive action would bypass the INA per-country caps for H-1B workers, essentially provid…

From the quote you gave, "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." [emphasis added]

The article states effectively which means that while they aren't given out in reality, they are accomplishing much the same thing in practice and that 100,000 more people are working here than should be according to the intent of the law. For every one of those workers working here, there is one less American working here.

When Congress passed the law, they knew what they were doing. 7% is about 1 in 14 for a world with over 180 countries. Instead of an executive order, they should probably change the law through Congress.

If you want to talk about fairness, then talk about how unfair it is that American workers have wages further depressed and have a more difficult time finding jobs because of this change in executive order (and not the law). The President is supposed to represent American citizens who vote him in office, instead represents the elites (e.g. Silicon Valley firms and Wall Street firms) who want depressed wages for American STEM workers.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#283

Post by serge2k »

794CD01 wrote: post #217
mattnewton wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The process you described is called democracy. Unilateral executive action of the top cabinet alone outside times of declared war (and even sometimes within a war) would be called dictatorial or authoritarian. The debates, compromises checks are not just a tradition to be distrupted.

Dictatorial and authoritarian are not necessarily negatives. Calls for a businessman to cut through the red tape and run the government more efficiently are almost as old as American democracy itself. Call it whatever you like, we knew that's how this candidate wanted to operate and voted for it anyway.

> Dictatorial and authoritarian are not necessarily negatives

Yes they fucking are.

> we knew that's how this candidate wanted to operate and voted for it anyway

Most didn't vote for him.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#284

Post by davidf18 »

davidf18 wrote: post #255

This is an article about 250 Disney of FL jobs that were displaced by H1-B Visa abuse. Trump was clearly against the abuse and spoke out against it. Rubio on the other hand was for tripling the number of Visas to 250,000 and had Disney as one of his major donors. Much of Silicon Valley wants to keep wages depressed and have more American unemployed by hiring more immigrant workers over using Americans. Many people sa…

Why was this downvoted? It would be helpful if someone stated the reason why. What is clear is that Trump represents American workers over the elites that want to depress wages. What is also clear is that Rubio was "bought" by Disney precisely because they wanted to depress American wages.

Are these facts incorrect?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#285

Post by serge2k »

0xfeba wrote: post #269
mavelikara wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not working at the Big 4, am on H-1B, and am a hiring manager at an SV firm. When I hire an H-1B it is not about the money. Not challenging your experience, but pointing out that there are other possibilities also.

Well, yes. I mean at the Big 4 (and really, this applies to any large, cutting-edge company: Twitter, Oracle, etc.) they do reach out of the US to find great talent for higher up positions. But they also abuse the visa process for lower wages in lower positions. Lots of other companies without hype just want lower wage workers. I figure these are the majority.

> But they also abuse the visa process for lower wages in lower positions.

The numbers are public on this and look fine. People keep telling you "I'm on an H-1B and I'm paid reasonably".

Please, offer actual proof or quit spreading this around.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#286

Post by yummyfajitas »

pnutjam wrote: post #267
yummyfajitas wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think one needs to experience poverty to make accurate claims about it? Like it or not, the statistics show that poor Americans don't work very much, they are well fed, and they have living conditions that are not drastically different from the rich and are much better than most of the world. Feel free to try and prove me wrong. But I'm willing to gamble that all you've got is anecdotes, no stats.

feel free to links some of those statistics.

I've done so many times. Here's a good summary.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381938#12382336

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#287

Post by mavelikara »

davidf18 wrote: post #282
mavelikara wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article you linked: "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." The INA states that no country may receive more than 7 percent of the total number of green cards available in a given year. The executive action would bypass the INA per-country caps for H-1B workers, essentially provid…

From the quote you gave, "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." [emphasis added] The article states effectively which means that while they aren't given out in reality, they are accomplishing much the same thing in practice and that 100,000 more people are working here than should be acc…

H-1B, the input stream for these skilled immigrants, do not have any such per-country limits. But the green card process does. This brings into existence a large number of skilled immigrants who have their stay in the country tied to their job. This weakens their negotiation power, and contributes significantly to the wage depression you talk about.

Even NumbersUSA do not oppose removing this [1] restriction. Yet, you are _for_ keeping the per-country quotas. Why?

[1]:https://www.numbersusa.org/content/news/november-30-2011/sen...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#288

Post by serge2k »

davidf18 wrote: post #282
mavelikara wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article you linked: "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." The INA states that no country may receive more than 7 percent of the total number of green cards available in a given year. The executive action would bypass the INA per-country caps for H-1B workers, essentially provid…

From the quote you gave, "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." [emphasis added] The article states effectively which means that while they aren't given out in reality, they are accomplishing much the same thing in practice and that 100,000 more people are working here than should be acc…

No it doesn't.

India has a massive backlog of green card applicants. Obama's order makes it so taht people who are already here working under H-1B laws can cut ahead of that line and start getting green cards. That's a change in priority.

Otherwise these people are stuck here tied to a company for a decade+. That's shitty for everyone but hte company.

If you really want H-1B visas to not be abused then you should be in favor of more reasonable paths to PR and citizenship.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#289

Post by serge2k »

mavelikara wrote: post #287
davidf18 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the quote you gave, "What is going on is he is effectively giving Green Cards to people on H-1B visas who are unable to get Green Cards due to the [annual] quotas… it could be over 100,000." [emphasis added] The article states effectively which means that while they aren't given out in reality, they are accomplishing much the same thing in practice and that 100,000 more people are working here than should be acc…

H-1B, the input stream for these skilled immigrants, do not have any such per-country limits. But the green card process does. This brings into existence a large number of skilled immigrants who have their stay in the country tied to their job. This weakens their negotiation power, and contributes significantly to the wage depression you talk about. Even NumbersUSA do not oppose removing this [1] restriction. Yet, yo…

I'm (selfishly) for keeping them because I don't want to get stuck in line with the huge backlog of people from India and China. That's a lousy reason though.

I'm not going to spend a decade living a shitty life waiting though. So if the per country caps go I might just give up.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#290

Post by serge2k »

cableshaft wrote: post #236
yummyfajitas wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's heavily tipped to foreign workers? For a US worker to find a job, they need to find a willing employer. For a foreign worker, they need to: 0) Find a willing employer. 1) Get lucky. For 2017, there were 236,000 applications for 65,000 H1Bs (about a 25% success rate). 2) Prove that an American worker isn't available to do the job. 3) Wait > 8 months to start the job (applications happen in April 2016 for 2017 emp…

Keep in mind, a large amount of those applications are pushed by outsourcing companies, that are gaming the system. "Federal officials allow only one application for each foreign worker, but companies can submit an unlimited number of applications for their employees, so global outsourcing giants can, and do, submit many requests." And one third of all approved H1Bs are for those outsourcing firms. Source: https://ww…

that makes no difference to the workers. It's worse if anything because those companies won't even sponsor them for a green card.

I'm a foreign worker, and while I am very happy to live in the US being here on a visa sucks.

Post reply on HN