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French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

france24.com

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Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#331

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

darkwater wrote: post #186
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

spain loses ~240,000 acres to wildfire every year. this is larger than normal, but fire is normal there

This sounds like a climate change denier statement: Spain has always been hot, lately is a bit hotter than usual but it's normal to have hot weather there.

what am I denying? some people were under the impression that wildfire is a totally novel thing in Spain. I'm only pointing out that fairly large wildfires happens every year, but that this one is larger than normal.

I guess I need a disclaimer on every comment that says "climate change is obviously real you can save your downvotes" jfc

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#332

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #61
ares623 wrote: post #55

One of the biggest lies is that these events will only happen (or will happen first) to the "global south" and only affect the "other peoples". Unfortunately for us, the Earth has no preferences and doesn't run on our schedule.

on average, 240k acres burn every year in Spain. this is somewhat larger, but not abnormal. it's just near people this time.

I guess I need a disclaimer on every comment that says "climate change is obviously real you can save your downvotes"

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#333

Post by kergonath »

swiftcoder wrote: post #209
madaxe_again wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Landes Forest is a human disturbance. The whole damned thing was planted in the 1850s as an enormous pine plantation. Same thing as drives wildfires in Portugal - maritime pine (and in Portugal’s case eucalyptus). Vast, dense, barely managed pyrophytic monocultures. The problem isn’t poorly managed forest, it’s the forest, period - it shouldn’t be there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landes_forest

Yes, the same problem exists in the north of Spain. They long ago cut down native forests to plant vines and farm cattle, but once that ceased to be profitable they replanted it all in monoculture pine and eucalyptus. Where native forest (oak, chestnut, hazel, etc) remains, we don't have major fires. They are finally experimenting with planting firebreaks of native species in some areas, which has been quite effectiv…

> Where native forest (oak, chestnut, hazel, etc) remains, we don't have major fires.

Not really. It helps, but it is not a perfect solution. It did not prevent the massive wildfire near Fontainebleau, for example.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#334

Post by kergonath »

yubblegum wrote: post #277
madaxe_again wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Landes Forest is a human disturbance. The whole damned thing was planted in the 1850s as an enormous pine plantation. Same thing as drives wildfires in Portugal - maritime pine (and in Portugal’s case eucalyptus). Vast, dense, barely managed pyrophytic monocultures. The problem isn’t poorly managed forest, it’s the forest, period - it shouldn’t be there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landes_forest

As an aside, N. III's reign seems to have been overall something of a disaster for the French.

It’s more nuanced. He massively helped with industrialisation, for example. He was doing ok in his liberal years. But he had different phases and some were better than others.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#335

Post by halper »

belorn wrote: post #274
ludston wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have been working on this for more then 20 years now. 40 maybe. As long as I've been alive at least. It's just that all of the actions to try and deal with this have been continuously undermined by fossil fuel industries and right-wing politics.

There is a national election in Sweden this year. Which parties or blocks are against construction of thermal power plants, and which are against it? Thermal power plants are primarily fueled by oil or natural gas. Party platforms are public and posted on their websites. A few years ago EU voted to define two technologies as green. One was natural gas, and the other was nuclear. Which parties voted for natural gas, a…

For me, it has degraded to the point where I simply presume that no significant promises are going to be kept after the election anyway. The respective parties will promise what they think they need to get the votes, and will then target whatever is relevant for the ever-evolving social-media driven zeitgeist.

"A completely fossil-free energy system" ("Ett helt fossilfritt energisystem" (1)) yesteryear and now lower fuel prices than 20 years ago (adjusted for inflation, yes).

(1) https://moderaterna.se/app/uploads/2022/03/220326FemVallöfte...

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#336

Post by kergonath »

senderista wrote: post #85

I will be surprised if the climate crisis doesn’t eventually escalate to the point where basically everyone agrees that geoengineering of some kind is worth the risk.

We are already doing some geo-engineering. That’s what putting megatonnes of greenhouse gases up the atmosphere is. We’re just too stupid and shorts-sighted to do it in any useful way.

That said, piling more geo-engineering on top of the problem will not solve it. It will just create more issues with unforeseen consequences and instability. What we really need to do is to reduce emissions. It’s much simpler and cheaper than any form of geo-engineering you could think of to mitigate the consequences.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#337

Post by dolmen »

tcp_handshaker wrote: post #41

If you the are in the area and hesitating to evacuate, or if you want to realize what terrible phenomenon you are you facing. Watch this great documentary about the tragedy that unfolded in Portugal a few years ago. Leave now. "Witness to Disaster | National Geographic" - https://youtu.be/clTeqIpGBeU https://youtu.be/clTeqIpGBeU?t=1734

At 12:00 pyrocumulus is explained.

At 29:00 pyrocumulonimbus is explained.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#338

Post by kergonath »

rasz wrote: post #113
senderista wrote: post #85

I will be surprised if the climate crisis doesn’t eventually escalate to the point where basically everyone agrees that geoengineering of some kind is worth the risk.

Could start with Sulphur spray into atmosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_aerosol_injectio... Wonder how much 2020 Bunker Fuel ban contributed.

Yay, acid rains.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#339

Post by jappgar »

Loquebantur wrote: post #320
Galanwe wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is indicative of escalating climate catastrophe is indeed the intensity and frequency of those firestorms I don't think we have the data that proves this theory (which of course doesn't mean that the theory is wrong), because the vast majority of these fires are man-made, not natural disasters. This year's Fontainebleau wildfires were caused by 1) a deranged person ligthning bushes and drenching them with fuel…

You're conceptually wrong about "the theory" and factually about the majority of fires. The fundamental connection increase of CO2 => increase in mean temperature => increase in frequency of high-energy atmospheric events is entirely obvious and well established. CO2 traps heat and heat is energy. Firestorms are an immediate consequence of that and accordingly rise in frequency as well. The idea, such fires would be…

Spot on. But logic is lost on people who are ideologically motivated.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#340

Post by swiftcoder »

kergonath wrote: post #333
swiftcoder wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the same problem exists in the north of Spain. They long ago cut down native forests to plant vines and farm cattle, but once that ceased to be profitable they replanted it all in monoculture pine and eucalyptus. Where native forest (oak, chestnut, hazel, etc) remains, we don't have major fires. They are finally experimenting with planting firebreaks of native species in some areas, which has been quite effectiv…

> Where native forest (oak, chestnut, hazel, etc) remains, we don't have major fires. Not really. It helps, but it is not a perfect solution. It did not prevent the massive wildfire near Fontainebleau, for example.

> It did not prevent the massive wildfire near Fontainebleau, for example.

That's a pretty great example in the opposite direction, as Fontainebleau today only contains isolated pockets of protected old-growth, and the rest has been systematically converted over the last ~150 years to highly flammable pine trees...

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