French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time • Hacker News Board

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#201

Post by lazystar » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 6:52 AM UTC

derriz wrote: post #157

lazystar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

acceptance; the problems identified. efforts now should focus on innovative solutions that dont rely on nation state investment.

Why? The vast majority of fossil fuel production globally is through state-owned companies.

in the 1800's, were the vast majority of horses produced through state owned companies? that process was upended by human ingenuity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Benz

begging governments to solve the problem has obviously failed; focusing our efforts on fostering ideas and inventions is our best hope at getting our of this mess.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#202

Post by madaxe_again » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 6:58 AM UTC

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

The Landes Forest is a human disturbance.

The whole damned thing was planted in the 1850s as an enormous pine plantation.

Same thing as drives wildfires in Portugal - maritime pine (and in Portugal’s case eucalyptus). Vast, dense, barely managed pyrophytic monocultures. The problem isn’t poorly managed forest, it’s the forest, period - it shouldn’t be there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landes_forest

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#203

Post by TurdF3rguson » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:00 AM UTC

It reminds me of that French fire-fighter who threw caution to the wind in rescuing me and my precious cat Lulu from our flat when it was engulfed in flames. He sadly perished in that fire but I will never forget him.

I can't recall his name but I think he had a mustache.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#204

Post by applepearlime » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:00 AM UTC

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

Do you happen to know if firebreaks or fuelbreaks are used in some of these forests? Are they seen as effective? Are they costly to set up?

From what I saw online, there are indications that firebreaks do not always work, for instance when embers fly over long distances, carried by the wind, over firebreaks, and start fires on the other side. But I would guess that firebreaks like cleared areas, for instance between settlements and forests, should be able to mitigate at least some of the fires.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#205

Post by swiftcoder » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:02 AM UTC

Marsymars wrote: post #184

Ma8ee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't put this on the environmentalists when the simple explanation isn't short term cost effective to do this. If you need to put some big blanket blame, then blame capitalism. If nothing else because it has so far stopped all effective measure to stop the climate crisis.

And in other areas, e.g. Canada, "cost prohibitive" is underselling the magnitude of the logistical task of doing anything to the overwhelming majority of boreal forests. There's just so much forest, and no way to access most of it, that it's effectively impossible to do any forest management or anything about most fires. (Most fires don't come near population centres, so nothing need be done about them.)

I wonder what happened to the sparse and/or nomadic populations that used to inhabit and manage such areas of forest across North America...

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#206

Post by jcattle » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:03 AM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #200

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

Interesting. Have you tried back testing your model agains fire data to analyze how well you could predict fire likelihood?

No, at the moment classifying disturbances is only done retrospective. Predicting fire likelihood is its own large area of research.

An open case is more in terms of temperate forests which are increasingly starting to burn, for example in Austria or other central European countries. These tend to be understory fires, which (for now) only rarely catch the crown.

For these fires the tree crown stays green and you can't see any change until later in the year or the next year, where the trees die due to damage the fire did to their cambium and roots. Correctly attributing this later decline to fire damage is a bit challenging.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#207

Post by MemoryHoleHQ » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:05 AM UTC

reco98gg wrote: post #140

Dibby053 wrote: post #57

For context on why this region is burning so easily: the Landes and Médoc are huge, artificial pine forests created in the 19th century under Napoleon III to drain and reclaim what was considered an inhospitable wetland, where shepherds famously walked around on stilts. Pine resin and needle litter makes it exceptionally flammable, and being an uninterrupted monoculture on flat land it lacks natural barriers to stop…

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

[dead]

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#208

Post by ButlerianJihad » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:06 AM UTC

KeplerBoy wrote: post #194

c7b wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would non-permanent credits even work? You purchase the carbon-offset option on a flight, a tree gets planted somewhere, ten years later it burns in a wildfire. Then what?

Then the area should have to be replanted without granting new credits. It's perfectly natural that trees die and are replaced by new ones in a forest. The unusual thing is just the entire forest dying at the same time.

Yes, it would be very unusual for an "entire forest" to die off, because forest fires are a natural phenomenon, and many plants and animals can survive fires, sometimes becoming more resilient afterwards.

Pyrophilic species can even benefit from forest fires with reproduction being triggered by them.

It would also be quite unusual for accountant teams to follow individual trees around throughout their lifecycle, ticking little boxes when they die or something, in order to follow through on carbon credits. Think about this realistically.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#209

Post by swiftcoder » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:06 AM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #202

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

The Landes Forest is a human disturbance. The whole damned thing was planted in the 1850s as an enormous pine plantation. Same thing as drives wildfires in Portugal - maritime pine (and in Portugal’s case eucalyptus). Vast, dense, barely managed pyrophytic monocultures. The problem isn’t poorly managed forest, it’s the forest, period - it shouldn’t be there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landes_forest

Yes, the same problem exists in the north of Spain. They long ago cut down native forests to plant vines and farm cattle, but once that ceased to be profitable they replanted it all in monoculture pine and eucalyptus.

Where native forest (oak, chestnut, hazel, etc) remains, we don't have major fires. They are finally experimenting with planting firebreaks of native species in some areas, which has been quite effective at halting the spread of fires. But realistically, we need a huge government investment to get rid of this monoculture entirely.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#210

Post by jcattle » Mon, Jul 27, 2026, 7:11 AM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #202

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

The Landes Forest is a human disturbance. The whole damned thing was planted in the 1850s as an enormous pine plantation. Same thing as drives wildfires in Portugal - maritime pine (and in Portugal’s case eucalyptus). Vast, dense, barely managed pyrophytic monocultures. The problem isn’t poorly managed forest, it’s the forest, period - it shouldn’t be there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landes_forest

Yes, I'm well aware that Landes naturally should be an extensive sandy marsh.

With how natural forest disturbances are more and more starting to affect the plantation, it proves to be seen what the response will be.

The thing is that it is an incredibly productive forest (only in terms of biomass). So now there's a bunch of capital riding on it which will have a vested interest to keep it productive.