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MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

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Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#331

Post by nsbk »

satvikpendem wrote: post #205
nsbk wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari routinely using 20+ Gb of memory with a handful of tabs open. Safari tabs refusing to close. Unresponsive System Settings window. Random application freezes and crashes, Apple Music not playing music. This is on a 32Gb M1 Max. My M1 Air on Sequoia doesn't experience any of these issues, even if it has half the unified memory.

I never had any of those issues, but then again I don't use Safari or other Apple apps like music.

The fact that avoiding Apple-made software provides an overall better user experience is very telling

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#332

Post by GeekyBear »

tux3 wrote: post #322
azinman2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems very reasonable to me

A bit strange to use time to first token instead of throughput. Latency to the first token is not like a web page where first paint already has useful things to show. The first token is "The ", and you'll be very happy it's there in 50ms instead of 200ms... but then what you really want to know is how quickly you'll get the rest of the sentence (throughput)

In previous generations, throughout was excellent for an integrated GPU, but the time to first token was lacking.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#333

Post by satvikpendem »

nsbk wrote: post #331
satvikpendem wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never had any of those issues, but then again I don't use Safari or other Apple apps like music.

The fact that avoiding Apple-made software provides an overall better user experience is very telling

Not necessarily, because I never used Apple apps, it's not like I'm avoiding them now because they're ostensibly buggy (as others don't seem to have the same issues in this thread).

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#334

Post by danudey »

GeekyBear wrote: post #332
tux3 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit strange to use time to first token instead of throughput. Latency to the first token is not like a web page where first paint already has useful things to show. The first token is "The ", and you'll be very happy it's there in 50ms instead of 200ms... but then what you really want to know is how quickly you'll get the rest of the sentence (throughput)

In previous generations, throughout was excellent for an integrated GPU, but the time to first token was lacking.

So throughput was already good but TTFT was the metric that needed more improvement?

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#335

Post by neya »

4fterd4rk wrote: post #270
neya wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still think Apple has a huge opportunity in privacy first LLMs This correlation of Apple and privacy needs to rest. They have consistently proven to be otherwise - despite heavily marketing themselves as "privacy-first" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-con...

I think it's a little telling that the best you can do is a seven year old article.

So, somehow now they are the beacons of privacy and we should just ignore their history of spying on their users?

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#336

Post by compounding_it »

kobalsky wrote: post #289
dawnerd wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 32gb m1 max was probably the best purchase I've made. Still plenty of headroom in performance left in this beast. Wonder what reason they'll use to end software support in the future. Bet it'll be some security hardware they make up for the sake of forcing upgrades.

my tinfoil hat theory is that they make small features depend on new hardware. for example, let's say the new os depends on m5's exclusive thumbnail generator accelerator, and let's say it improves speed by a 20%. now, your M1 notebook than on previous OSes uses standard gpu acceleration for thumbnails will not have this specialized hardware acceleration, it will have software fallback that will be 90% slower. you wo…

yes pretty much this. make useless features use up resources and make basic scrolling slow.

the Liquid Glass for example probably is not so great when it comes to resources. Probably works better with latest metal and hardware blocks on the GPU in M5 as opposed to using GPU cores and unified memory on 8gb M1 making latest macOS work not so great. I have the M1 8gb air and it is really slow on Tahoe. It was snappy just a couple of years ago on a fresh install.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#337

Post by fragmede »

tux3 wrote: post #322
azinman2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems very reasonable to me

A bit strange to use time to first token instead of throughput. Latency to the first token is not like a web page where first paint already has useful things to show. The first token is "The ", and you'll be very happy it's there in 50ms instead of 200ms... but then what you really want to know is how quickly you'll get the rest of the sentence (throughput)

No you don't. Not as a sticky mushy human with emotions watching tokens drip in. There's a lot of feeling and emotion not backed by hard facts and data going around, and most people would rather see something happening even if it takes longer overall. Hence spinner.gif, that doesn't actually remotely do a damned thing, but it gives users reassurance that they're waiting for something good. So human psychology makes time to first token an important metric to look at, although it's not the only one.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#338

Post by mixtureoftakes »

MBCook wrote: post #257

Can someone comment on the new dual die thing they’re promoting for how they make the M5 Pro and M5 Max chips? How is that different from the silicon interposer they were using before? The big change is the two dies don’t have to fabbed next to each other in a single wafer, which is fantastic for costs and yields. But would this affect the interconnect speed somehow? How would the two be wired together? Could this me…

Curious about that as well.

They seem to market it as a technological advancement, which it is, but rather than being excited im actually worried about hidden latencies that could come with that approach. Have you found any interesting info on that yet?

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#340

Post by mixtureoftakes »

post_break wrote: post #251

My M3 Pro with 18gb of ram still feels like a beast. The only thing I can make it suffer with so far is generating meshes from 3D scanning, and even then I'm just patient. Apple is suffering from success with these older laptops, it's a tough sell to upgrade, even from the M1 Max folks.

I mean, they had to make them good because of the new cpu architecture, but since the emulation worked so well and overall adoption was really fast it now is a problem for them as a company. A really good problem to have though
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