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MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

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Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#281

Post by someperson »

philistine wrote: post #176
jsheard wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look how many people bought Minis and ended up just paying for API calls anyway. (Saw it IRL 2x, see it on reddit openclaw daily) Aren't the OpenClaw enjoyers buying Mac Minis because it's the cheapest thing which runs macOS, the only platform which can programmatically interface with iMessage and other Apple ecosystem stuff? It has nothing to do with the hardware really. Still, buying a brand new Mac Mini for that…

There are so few used Mac Mini around, those are all gone and what is left is to buy new.

Just like with GPUs and Bitcoin they'll be a flood of old hardware on the market eventually.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#282

Post by lm28469 »

hrmtst93837 wrote: post #274
lm28469 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also buy a 64gb mini, save $1k and do more work than what you could do with a single 5090. In Europe I can get a 128gb mac studio m4 max for 300 euros more than a 5090 (for which you still need to buy a power supply, motherboard, cpu , &c.)

[flagged]

All I'm saying is that the comparison doesn't make sense. The 5090 is faster on a small subset of tasks if attached to a computer which ends up being 3x the price of a m5 machine that fit the same model or the same price as a machine that fits models 5x bigger

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#283

Post by aurareturn »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #237
aurareturn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. This is clearly a big CPU change if so. I wonder why no E cores. I’m sure E cores would be more efficient at OS tasks than the new performance cores. For example, 6 super, 8 performance, and 4 efficiency.

Another commenter stated the P cores can be scaled down to be E cores dynamically, so why not?

P cores would take up more die space.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#284

Post by adastra22 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #42
whizzter wrote: post #6

128gb of memory, it's a nice change for Apple not to lag in that department for once, wonder what such a machine will cost though.

Checking Apple's store, I can't find a cheaper configuration than $5100 for the M5 + 128GiB version. Here in Europe, including 21% VAT, that's €6.124,00 ($7.094,35 equivalent). Because of pricing strategies and such, the 128GiB version comes with a 2TiB SSD at minimum, and also requires the M5 Max (not Pro) at its highest configuration. Not sure if this is new, but it should be noted that these laptops don't come wit…

Because your countries mandate no power adapter for some stupid ewaste reason.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#285

Post by aurareturn »

jacobp100 wrote: post #226
aurareturn wrote: post #4

Whoah, both the Pro and Max CPUs feature 18 cores. This hasn't happened since M1 Pro/Max. This is a surprise. Also, the mix of cores have changed drastically. - 6 "Super cores" - 12 "Performance cores" I'm guessing these are just renamed performance and efficiency cores from previous generations. This is a massive change from the M4 Max: - 12 performance cores - 4 efficiency cores This seems like a downgrade (in core…

I was looking into this. The M5 performance cores can be scaled down to match efficiency cores in performance and power usage. I believe they lower the clock speed, limit how much work is done in parallel on each core, and limit how aggressive the speculative execution is so less work is wasted.

  The M5 performance cores can be scaled down to match efficiency cores in performance and power usage.
Source for this?

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#286

Post by whywhywhywhy »

Someone1234 wrote: post #180
hrmtst93837 wrote: post #115

[flagged]

You're right a $3600 graphics card is worse than a $2600 laptop; but from my perspectives they're very different products. Not least of all because even at $3600 for a RTX 5090 you still have the whole rest of the computer left to purchase.

Max version with the 614GB/s is a $3599 laptop

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#287

Post by super_mario »

barumrho wrote: post #233
dirk94018 wrote: post #37

On M4 Max 128GB we're seeing ~100 tok/s generation on a 30B parameter model in our from scratch inference engine. Very curious what the "4x faster LLM prompt processing" translates to in practice. Smallish, local 30B-70B inference is genuinely usable territory for real dev workflows, not just demos. Will require staying plugged in though.

100 tok/s sounds pretty good. What do you get with 70B? With 128GB, you need quantization to fit 70B model, right? Wondering if local LLM (for coding) is a realistic option, otherwise I wouldn't have to max out the RAM.

I run gpt-oss 120b model on ollama (the model is about 65 GB on disk) with 128k context size (the model is super optimized and only uses 4.8 GB of additional RAM for KV cache at this context size) on M4 Max 128 GB RAM Mac Studio and I get 65 tokens/s.

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#288

Post by andoando »

Hamuko wrote: post #67
butILoveLife wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its just marketing, and the marketing is working. Look how many people bought Minis and ended up just paying for API calls anyway. (Saw it IRL 2x, see it on reddit openclaw daily) I don't mind it, I open Apple stock. But I'm def not buying into their rebranding of integrated GPU under the guise of Unified Memory.

I've tried to use a local LLM on an M4 Pro machine and it's quite painful. Not surprised that people into LLMs would pay for tokens instead of trying to force their poor MacBooks to do it.

Local LLMs are useful for stuff like tool calling

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#289

Post by kobalsky »

dawnerd wrote: post #243
manofmanysmiles wrote: post #114

I love the following section of their copy: > Even More Value for Upgraders > The new 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max mark a major leap for pro users. There’s never been a better time for customers to upgrade from a previous generation of MacBook Pro with Apple silicon or an Intel-based Mac. I read as "Whoops we made the M1 Macbook Pro too good, please upgrade!" I think I will get another 2-5 years…

My 32gb m1 max was probably the best purchase I've made. Still plenty of headroom in performance left in this beast. Wonder what reason they'll use to end software support in the future. Bet it'll be some security hardware they make up for the sake of forcing upgrades.

my tinfoil hat theory is that they make small features depend on new hardware.

for example, let's say the new os depends on m5's exclusive thumbnail generator accelerator, and let's say it improves speed by a 20%.

now, your M1 notebook than on previous OSes uses standard gpu acceleration for thumbnails will not have this specialized hardware acceleration, it will have software fallback that will be 90% slower.

you won't notice it a first thought because it's stuff, fast, but it eats a bit of the processor.

multiply this by 1000 features and you have a slow machine.

I don't know how else to explain how an ipad pro cannot even scroll a menu without stuttering, it's insane how fast these things were on release

Re: MacBook Pro with M5 Pro and M5 Max

#290

Post by aurareturn »

otterley wrote: post #152

I checked the fine print on the product website: by “up to 4x faster LLM prompt processing,” they’re specifically referring to time to first token. So it’s not about token generation rate (tokens per second).

Yes. This is known. They added neural accelerators, aka Tensor core equivalent, in the GPU. This will make prompt processing competitive vs similar class GPUs.
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