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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#331

Post by evdoks »

imp0cat wrote: post #314
hnick wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).

I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.

By the way, no adaptive cruise control does not always mean that there is no radar. Some car still keep the radar and use it for AEB, but have ACC disabled I’d you do not purchase it when configuring the car.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#332

Post by CJefferson »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #249
tqi wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true of basically any change isn't it? Even seat belts conceivably could result in some very small increase in the chance of death as a result of it being harder to escape a vehicle. Obviously the benefits far outweigh the risk, but then we are just arguing over where to draw the line.

I think you missed their point. It's not that most situations are improved and some get worse, it's that those situations might be unevenly distributed among drivers. A seat belt is basically the same for everyone. It makes things safer when you look at all drivers, and it makes things safer for just about any subgroup of drivers. But a buggy AEB might not fit that pattern. Imagine a system that reduces crashes by ha…

Your claim seems to be the group who are not helped are "good drivers"? ... except that doesn't feel like a well-defined group to me, and also is a group that almost everyone would say that they are in.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#333

Post by evdoks »

kovacs_ wrote: post #195
hnick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering t…

Comma 3 is s the best, to be honest. Due to CAN-FD on Ioniq 5 the setup is a little bit more complex, but this is the best experience, though they are still working on their own AEB implementation.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#334

Post by AlotOfReading »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #329
AlotOfReading wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm baffled by this comment. For one thing, this is literally not how vehicle regulation has worked in any western country for at least half a century, probably longer. There are already legally mandated systems that take away driver control in certain circumstances, notably ABS. For another, the NPRM being discussed assumes that essentially 100% of new vehicles will eventually come with AEB systems in the near futur…

Huh? ABS doesn't take away my control, it improves my control by preventing conditions that would reduce traction. This system is always engaged by brake pedal input from my foot. It's not something that cars just do out of nowhere. The emergency braking system will automatically stop the car without your input whenever it wants. Judging from this thread, that could be due to anything. False positives have been repor…

ABS improves your control in normal circumstances. There are (uncommon) circumstances where it will actually harm your ability to handle the vehicle, same as other mandatory systems like ECS and optional safety features like traction control. Some vehicles have ways to disable some or all of these safety features for control purposes.

The proposed rules include false activation tests, monitoring/reporting of unnecessary braking, and NHTSA retains the ability to order recalls if false activations are unreasonably common. It also includes a request for comment on whether manual disablement should be allowed at high speeds. Feel free to submit one if you feel strongly about it.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#335

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

taeric wrote: post #140
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with numbers is that they don't tell the whole story. I can easily imagine a scenario where it might prevent 25000 crashes a year that are caused because 5% of drivers are staring at their phones, have a high chance of rear-ending someone, and this software makes that far less likely. While also containing bugs causing 1000 crashes a year for the larger number of non-distracted drivers, resulting in a net…

No, that isn't a problem with numbers. That is a problem with letting your imagination run things. The scenarios and questions you ask are easy to explore in the data. If the number of crashes goes down, contrived scenarios don't really impact things. If they stay flat or go up, then you have to answer why. To emphasize, for your imagination here to be relevant, the number has to do one of those. If the number goes d…

The confusion here is that some people realize they aren't "average". That is, while some policy or another is good on the whole, it can also be bad for them personally. For them, the chance of a wreck can actually increase. You're demanding that they sacrifice themselves to save imbeciles who probably shouldn't be allowed to drive anyway.

For such people, these policies suck. And it's strange that there are those that demand they either be happy about it, or at least be quiet about it.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#337

Post by Tade0 »

mkmk wrote: post #19

This feature once saved me from what would have otherwise been a very nasty crash, many years ago. I was driving too fast in a borrowed car over a small hill and hadn't realized that traffic had stopped just out of my sight until too late. I heard a beep and saw flashing on my dash and I started braking but a moment later the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to. The…

I've had two situations where it prevented me rear-ending someone.

The system also had several misfires, like when there were cars parked on the curb on a long turn, but mine in particular doesn't start braking until I do - it just beeps and makes the dashboard light up in red.

It's pretty reliable and I would be all for mandating at least this basic implementation.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#339

Post by sgift »

peteradio wrote: post #204
ceejayoz wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a safe driver, it's likely to be meaningless. No. You are sharing the road with others, of variable skill, and things like deer and pedestrians who can dart into traffic. I’ve been crashed into from behind while stopped in traffic; no fuckup on my end, but still would have likely benefited from automated emergency braking. Your car insurance also reflects others’ accident rates. You shoulder some of the…

Ok, I see where you're going with this, let's mandate for bad drivers; now everyone is happy.

Good idea. People who think of themselves as good drivers are some of the worst usually, so we'll start with those.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#340

Post by mathieuh »

justahuman74 wrote: post #328
CWuestefeld wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I've been a licensed driver for over 40 years. I had one minor fender-bender at 16 years old, learned my lesson, and haven't had another accident since. I'm an exceptionally good driver as evidenced by this, plus the fact that I've taken performance driving classes, simulators, and so forth. I, personally, am a much lower risk than the typical driver. Putting a drivers' aid device in my car may well incre…

I thought I was a low risk driver, then when doing a lot of hours riding a motorcycle it became very apparent how incredibly terrible of a car driver I was. So much general threat and risk was invisible as a car driver contained in a big metal box.

I do a lot of cycling and it's amazing how much more aware you are when any minor bump is going to cause you injury. I've avoided accidents multiple seconds in advance because something about the way someone was driving made me nervous, it's like you get a sixth sense.
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