Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 512 posts

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#311

Post by alvah »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

Same here, in the last 18 months 2 different VAG cars have hauled the anchors on for no reason at all with me driving. Fortunately, I wasn't in traffic, but both cases would absoulutely have caused an unnecessary crash if there had been a car behind me. This technology will be great when it's ready, but the false positive detection rate is massively higher than would be acceptable.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#312

Post by hnick »

imp0cat wrote: post #306
hnick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

Yes, *near* perfect is the correct word. Anecdotally, in a 2021 Hyundai, I do get random AEB warnings in the city mostly when merging into fast-flowing traffic. Thankfully it is possible to have the system set to beep only as slamming on the brakes while merging is an experience everyone wants to avoid. Also, it sometimes panics when coming to a stop on an incline with a car ahead. I guess it is unable to account for…

I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#313

Post by imp0cat »

ouid wrote: post #151

As soon at the becomes prevalent, people are going to start fucking with it. For instance, I'm personally going to bring a big piece of posterboard with a car printed on it, and hold it out in intersections that I'm about to cross on foot. A feature that lets an adversary take control of your car in this way is known as a bug.

A high-visibility vest worn while walking on the side of a road is sometimes all that it takes to activate it. :)

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#314

Post by imp0cat »

hnick wrote: post #312
imp0cat wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, *near* perfect is the correct word. Anecdotally, in a 2021 Hyundai, I do get random AEB warnings in the city mostly when merging into fast-flowing traffic. Thankfully it is possible to have the system set to beep only as slamming on the brakes while merging is an experience everyone wants to avoid. Also, it sometimes panics when coming to a stop on an incline with a car ahead. I guess it is unable to account for…

I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).

I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#315

Post by boringuser2 »

pdonis wrote: post #94
ddalcino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate on what went wrong? The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea, and it’s hard for me to imagine that this particular feature would be so problematic. If you’re talking about other automatic steering features, that’s very different, and your comment makes more sense to me.

> The other comments here make ‘automatic emergency braking’ sound like a really good idea That's because those other comments all assume that "automatic emergency braking" will only do exactly what it's supposed to do and will never make a mistake. But any sensible person knows that's not going to happen. These systems will make mistakes, and some of those mistakes will cause harm. So you can't just make a blanket c…

This is a solved engineering problem domain: use redundancy. There's a reason air travel is safe despite using many intricate safety technologies.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#316

Post by jacquesm »

chubs wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar situation with an 87 year old family member that still drives and I've offered to be on call for chauffeur service or to pay for cabs or whatever it takes but they will keep doing it until they either die from other causes or get into an accident, which in my opinion is only a matter of time. So far I've managed to get them to rely on me for two really long rides and at least they no longer go on the…

Sorry to hear about that situation :( Here’s how it played out in my grandmothers life: she was fiercely independent until she (likely) caused a crash in her late 80s, ended up in hospital, then was never properly healthy again, she spiralled down gradually. It’s just not good :( hope that doesn’t upset you.

It doesn't upset me and that's exactly what I think may well happen because it has happened like that many times before with other people.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#317

Post by ClassyJacket »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #237
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #32

Looking at the comments here I need to double check if I'm on some gearhead forum where automatic transmission is considered appropriate exclusively for teenagers and geriatric patients. Anyway, I'll add my anecdote when my Toyota surprised me with a panic brake in a blind corner which probably saved my life by not ending up under a stopped bus. But the kicker is that my insurer gave me quite a steep discount when I…

Wanting to have control over the vehicle is not some "gearhead forum" thing at all. I barely care about cars and I still care about this. I'm the driver, I should be in control and there's literally no need to justify it any further. Anything that forcibly takes away control is automatically wrong from a basic human dignity perspective. I couldn't care less what governments or insurers think, I'm the goddamn human an…

I strongly disagree. You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive.

Vehicle regulation should be based on the overall safest option, not 'dignity' or freedom or individualism anything like that.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#318

Post by randerson »

jacquesm wrote: post #43
mkmk wrote: post #19

This feature once saved me from what would have otherwise been a very nasty crash, many years ago. I was driving too fast in a borrowed car over a small hill and hadn't realized that traffic had stopped just out of my sight until too late. I heard a beep and saw flashing on my dash and I started braking but a moment later the emergency braking system kicked in, braking much harder than I would have been able to. The…

Seatbelt tensioners are life savers. They're a little explosive charge under the chair near the seatbelt attachment point that yanks hard on the belt to squeeze you against the chair while the car comes to a stop. They're super powerful and you don't want to mess with them unless you know exactly what you're doing (see also: airbags).

So do you have to replace the explosive even if you don't end up crashing?

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#319

Post by hnick »

imp0cat wrote: post #314
hnick wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).

I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.

Ah OK, in my car AEB and SCC ("Smart Cruise Control" as they call it) are the same sub-system - when one broke due to the no-input fail-safe, so did the other. The radar is behind the badge and works in tandem with the camera I believe.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#320

Post by jacquesm »

sobriquet9 wrote: post #213
hnick wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is one other aspect to consider. Over here at least, generally if someone rear ends you it's always their fault. The law says they were not maintaining a safe following distance. So from the perspective of the manufacturer they would probably say such mistakes should not by themselves cause problems unless someone else is breaking the law, no different to a human tapping the brakes because they thought…

It's not only rear ending. The main road near my house has a sharp left turn with a sign on the side of the road. I occasionally get a BRAKE! warning there, probably because AEB mistakes that sign for a car in front of me. On a wet road, stepping on the brakes when the car is turning can easily result in understeer, which is particularly dangerous in that spot because of the large boulders nearby.

That matches one of my two faulty EAB experiences nearly perfect.
Post reply on HN