331–340 of 835 posts
The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…
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> Subreddits like r/solarpunk, r/fuckcars, r/notjustbikes, along with the push for 15 minute cities are a testament ... that the Internet is dominated by the small niche of loud people who think other people want to hear their opinion. That's it. Anybody who is not deep inside the Reddit (and HN, for that matter) bubble can quickly appreciate how dissimilar the viewpoints on Reddit are from the real world.
Yes, most people are lurkers. That doesn't mean that lurkers can't show their presence with interactions in the form of up or downvotes or that the different subreddits, hashtags, and so on aren't a mirror of the user base. Now, I understand your cynicism, but you'd be naive to believe that small pockets of change are not happening. But then again, what does a European know about European cities? Anyhow, I found this…
No, most people are not on Reddit.
I don't understand how to account for the fact that total vehicle sales in the US has not been dropping over the last 40 years despite stats like this from the article: "By 1997, 43% of the country’s 16-year-olds had driving licences. But in 2020, the most recent year for which figures are available, the number had fallen to just 25%. Nor is it just teenagers. One in five Americans aged between 20 and 24 does not hav…
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> (cars used to be a lot cheaper, both to buy and to maintain. Incomes for most used to be much higher) Cars have inflated at a rate significantly lower than general inflation (typically by about half as much), meaning they've gotten cheaper in real terms. They've also gotten much safer, more fuel efficient, reliable, lower-maintenance, and long-lived. https://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation/1980-...
In that case I wonder if it's a matter of the essentials costing so much more? Is it possible the cost of housing is taking up the price of a car?
People are really out to lunch if they think this is due to people not wanting cars and preferring public transit. I wish that was the case, but it's 100% because of the dire financial situation.
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Well but this is simply not the case. Cars did not get more expensive in the last 30-40 years vs CPI and much more accessible vs median let alone average income. They also last a lot longer so used cars are much more of an option than they were 30 let alone 60 years ago.
> Cars did not get more expensive in the last 30-40 years vs CPI and much more accessible vs median let alone average income. This is objectively false, cars absolutely did get more expensive in the last 30 years, they cost about double what they did in 1990, even after accounting for inflation. (see https://thesoundingline.com/since-1990-the-price-of-a-cheap-... as just one example of the math on that). They may "la…
It's easy to look up prices for something average though. A 1990 Toyota Camry was $11,588 MSRP [1]. A 2022 Toyta Camry is $25,395 MSRP [2]. That's a nominal increase of 119%. Meanwhile, the CPI increase from 1990 to 2022 was 124%.
So, a Toyota Camry has decreased slightly in price, in real terms. But it's also a better car, e.g. the 1990 one got you 24 MPG combined, while the 2022 gets you 32 MPG combined. Not to mention a host of other improvements over more than two decades.
So your assertion that cars cost double even after inflation doesn't seem to hold up, at least not for an average representative car, from the data I'm able to pull.
[1] https://www.jdpower.com/cars/1990/toyota/camry/4-door-sedan
[2] https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2022/
[3] https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/infl...
The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.
But then why would they have no money? Their parents are rich (per the article) and they're young (high school age) so we should be able to assume that their basic costs are funded by those rich parents. Is it because of this intense fear of getting a job that was starting to emerge when I was young and seems to have really taken off since?
Something odd, that I haven't seen many folks talk about, is that a lot of jobs are tacitly considered "beneath them" for Gen Z who grow up in middle class or higher affluence families. This is despite the fact that their parents don't think this, but the kids see a lifestyle on social media and an expectation that they have set for themselves that is not realistic and refuse to accept anything less. My own teenager is going through something similar, and it's a huge argument every time we talk about her getting a summer job. The type of work I did (stocking shelves and later running a till at a grocery store) when I was her age appalls her, even though it was by my standards pretty easy since at least I was inside in the air conditioning while working during the summer.
At the same time, hardly anyone in Gen Z would dare utter any statement that might be considered to be classist, because many Gen Zers believe in some chopped up Marxist fantasy, and consider classism one of the deadly sins, saying that those jobs are beneath them and they think they're better than the kids who take those jobs would get them cancelled. But that's exactly what they're thinking. They all want to be YouTubers or influencers, not the person who works the drive through at McDonald's.
Eh, this is a very city-centric view. As discussed many times past, including on HN, if you live in or near a major city, and in a country or area which prioritises goood public transport, you can get by admirably --even better-- without a car. As soon as you move even a little away from the metropolis, and/or to somewhere that doesn't prioritise good public transport, access (at least) to a car becomes close to a ne…
I live in a city with light rail and busses everywhere. Everything I want to do in this city is 20-30 min driving. Put the bus/train into it? Make that 1-2 hours or longer if I have to transfer. Then hope whatever I want is near a train/bus stop. I have traded money for time. The cost of my car buys me time. If I did not value my time I would use the public transportation more. The places near my work if I wanted to…
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The accessibility of OV-kaarten is indeed not great for tourists, which is ridiculous. There's been a lot of criticism of the OV-kaart system. But most things can be paid with a simple bank card transaction. I doubt buying or renting a car would be that much easier.
yes. I dont want to make much out of this. One of the team came from a country close by and he brought his car. Problem solved. But just about every Dutch person we worked with had a car. They would meet us on weekends in villages, and most drove. Public transport is great in Holland, but cars have their place too. And unlike some countries close by, Holland has a well maintain and well designed road system. Its grea…
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I think a lot of younger people who choose to live in a city, especially new grads, are essentially continuing their college experience. A lot of friends probably live in the city too. They can often bum transportation/do joint activities from friends who do own cars and are mostly fine with minimizing out of city activities that require a car. They also restrict themselves to jobs they can easily get to. Which in te…
Wow. That seems such a sad and limiting way to live your life. I love how I can use my cars to go anywhere at any time without depending on anyone else. And my family and I do a lot of optional activities. Different perspective, I guess.
Mostly true in my experience. I used to get away a lot more when I had a car and could just decide to hit the road whenever I wanted than I do now that I either have to rent or plan earlier and buy train tickets. It's purely friction linked by the way. I could still do all the things I did and it would actually cost me less money in the end. I just don't.