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Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

nature.com

331–340 of 404 posts

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#331
post #270
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all remember Boris Johnson going on TV and when asked about the images coming out of Italy said "Well, its nothing to worry about, you'll have to just take it on the chin". In defense of Boris, UK scientific advisors Patrick Vallance and Roy M. Anderson advised to go for the "herd immunity" strategy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vallance#COVID-19_pand... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article…

I wouldn’t give PM Boris Johnson too much credit here. He regularly skipped crucial meetings at the start of the pandemic, and as PM he is ultimately accountable for his choice of advisors. Moreover, a year later his government had the gall to pretend that herd immunity through infection had never been the strategy. It's a post-truth government.

> I wouldn’t give PM Boris Johnson too much credit here. He regularly skipped crucial meetings at the start of the pandemic

He did more than skip them, he remained thousands of miles away on holiday on a Caribbean island. Didn't deem it important enough to return early.

You also forgot the Lockdown parties. ;-)

Even before the party revelations, his and his government's handling of the pandemic was already well understood to be dire (dither & delay, too little too late, billions on dodgy contracts).

Post-party revelations ? Whatever scraps of credibility that may have remained quickly took a long walk off a short pier.

He and his supporters try to cling to his credibility on the back of the vaccines. But even that was dire. The completely un-necessary and embarrassing EU fighting and unfounded British exceptionalism over the vaccines, the false claims about AZ being a British invention when it is well documented that (something like) 75% of the AZ vaccine team are EU and Other nationals ... the list goes on.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#332
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: communicating nuance is hard when no one wants to hear it! Let me make it easy: 1. majority of infections happened pre-vaccine rollout. 2. we created a system that locked people out based on vaccine status. 3. the system should have included those with natural immunity. /q

> Case in point: communicating nuance is hard when no one wants to hear it! There is no nuance. The message couldn't be clearer: if you take the vaccine then the odds you'll die from COVID are way lower than if you do not. And reality does not lie: the bulk of COVID deaths come from unvaccinated people. https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/scicheck-covid-19-data-com... Enough with all this misinformed or disinformed bul…

What did I say that was misinformation?

> it's well established that those who contract COVID .. will have a good immunity response for subsequent infections.

> those who survive a COVID infection do end up with an immune system that is able to handle COVID.

It seems like we're on the same page here.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#333
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: communicating nuance is hard when no one wants to hear it! Let me make it easy: 1. majority of infections happened pre-vaccine rollout. 2. we created a system that locked people out based on vaccine status. 3. the system should have included those with natural immunity. /q

> Case in point: communicating nuance is hard when no one wants to hear it! There is no nuance. The message couldn't be clearer: if you take the vaccine then the odds you'll die from COVID are way lower than if you do not. And reality does not lie: the bulk of COVID deaths come from unvaccinated people. https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/scicheck-covid-19-data-com... Enough with all this misinformed or disinformed bul…

You've chosen not to address the (very clear) point made by the previous poster. Instead you retreat to familiar talking points. Genuinely disturbing to witness an interaction like this.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#334
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet political leaders will face no consequences. What consequences should they face? They are democratically elected. If the handling was indeed as terrible as you suggest I am sure they'll face the consequences in the next election.

Misinformation is a problem and causes harm to society. Punishing people who knowingly spread misinformation despite having more accurate knowledge seems like a possible way of improving public discourse. It doesn't even need to be a massive penalty, a fine is probably sufficient in most cases to make someone think twice.

It's too difficult to define misinformation to use as a concept that restricts free speech.

Just look at how much we've learnt about corona viruses these last two years. Many widely accepted truths today might have been considered misinformation early on in the pandemic.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#335
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective from you, particularly as I'm at uni and my close friends circle is probably 75% Chinese. Two of those friends were back in China visiting in December 2019 and January 2020. One of them was in Shanghai and was there for only 2 days before he put the pieces together, realised something very bad was going on, and got the fuck out back to the country we're in. Let me be clear: I don't think that…

I agree with you that mistakes have been made, both on the local level and on the national level. I also agree that there were failures to protect the interests of citizen — a thing which happens time to time. But I strongly disagree with the notions that: 1. They "covered it up". 2. COVID is "wholly China's fault". 3. China is a jingoistic, self-obsessed, morally bankrupt country. 4. China lies and will continue to…

Just letting you know I (truly) appreciate your points here and also how much time they must have taken to write, and I will get back to you. If I don't reply immediately, give me some time. I'll try to reciprocate by putting some serious thought/time into replying.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about not calling anything misinformation until you're pretty damn sure you're right yourself?

No, that is a complete overreaction. You can still call out "aliens did it" or other obvious nonsense.

Sure, you can call it out. But don't censor it. I want to see how crazy the people around me are.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#337
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloth masks do very little. I recommend you listen to the explanations by infectious disease experts Dr. Monica Gandhi and Dr. Michael Osterholm. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://open.spotify.com/episode/5VSukFrMYGae1ILd0e4HuR?si=F...

Cloth masks do very little > utterly useless. Litterally orders of magnitude.

When the potential downsides are greater than the upside, I would classify it as useless if not outright dangerous.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#338
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are democratically elected. No they're not. The only person in the Executive branch (which includes all cabinet positions) who is elected is the President, with whoever their VP is riding along on the ticket..

That's a technicality. People vote for Presidents by including the combo of them and their VP pick. The VP pick is known, even on the ballot, and understood to assume the President's role in case of emergency. So it's quite realistic to say we know full well we're voting for the package. I wouldn't extend this to the President's cabinet, as these people aren't known to us when voting.

>I wouldn't extend this to the President's cabinet, as these people aren't known to us when voting.

Which is the bigger point, since that is who makes up the government. Not just the cabinet heads, but all of the undersecretaries and department heads etc. There are hundreds (or more) of appointed positions in the Executive Branch. People like Fauci have never been elected to anything so I don't see how the comment I replied to can make that stance.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#339

Michael Olsterhelm stated on the Joe Rogan podcast in Feb 2020 about the virus being airborne.

People on his podcast also said it was a hoax in that timeframe. Your statement is just illustrating survivor bias.

That's more confirmation bias than survivor bias.

Re: Why the WHO took two years to say Covid is airborne

#340
post #163

Because WHO and CDC are political organizations first. Not long ago we've separated Church and State. Now it's time to separate Science and State.

They've effectivity turned science into a religion by not allowing people to question anything.
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