Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#331

Post by midev » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #290

barneysversion wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key management is how many comply with GDPR today. They encrypt the PII and associate it with the user. Then, when someone requests their info to be "deleted", they zero out the encryption key.

This should continue to work as long as you use systems that do not fall to pieces under quantum attacks. AES is considered "resistant" in that quantum does an effective square-rooting of the brute forcing effort (or if you prefer, halving of the binary key length). So, do not use anything under AES 256. Asymmetric algorithms fall apart though, which is why NIST has had a multi-year effort to select new standardized…

There are no known quantum attacks, so it's pretty pointless for most people to consider it in their threat models.

If you're a nation state that needs to protect information for 30+ years, then it's worth considering. For everyone on HN, it's not.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#332

Post by midev » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

oauea wrote: post #253

floatingatoll wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple considers 3 months their standard level of advance notice, with WWDC serving as your warning and the release of iOS in September as the go-live date. However, in this case, they have ended up giving you 6 months and a courtesy reminder. If you aren’t interested in maintaining your app annually, don’t publish apps on Apple’s store. Whether or not their level of notice is enough, they’ve been consistent for years…

Yet another developer-hostile apple policy. Amazing. You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point.

If you think requiring the ability to delete your account is "developer hostile", you're exactly why this provision needs to exist. Apple is giving you six months to stop fucking your users. Sorry not sorry :\

> You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point

My company has an app on the app store. We do a few hundred million dollars in sales via the app. Are we crazy?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#333

Post by SllX » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #199

SllX wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. It’s 6 words and you don’t even have to be rude about it or get annoyed at the offers they throw at you. Then you get the confirmation email and you’re set.

I hate talking in the phone to people I don't know so intensely that I have wasted hundreds of dollars on various things because I procrastinated calling to cancel. This effect is real, and companies know it, and design their cancellation processes to extract extra money from people.

Mate, I mentioned up above that the process by which I cancelled was a chat box that intermittently ate maybe three minutes. Not mentioned was I did it while cooking breakfast.

The best experience would have been no human intervention necessary, but for a process where someone was involved, it was incredibly straightforward. They gave me an offer, I refused it, and nobody had to be a dick about it and no phone calls were made.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#334

Post by woobar » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #154

bpodgursky wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to initiate deletion of their account from within the app No, that doesn't seem true.

What bank lets you create an account just from the app? … Okay, the digital-only ones, maybe. But virtually all other banks I've used make you go to a branch.

Any bank in America for the last 20 years. I opened my very first account at the branch cause I though they need to see me. Dozens of accounts at multiple financial institutions after that I never had to go to the branch. Most of my accounts held at places that don't have any branches within hundreds of miles.

In fact Wells Fargo is famous for opening account for you without you even thinking about it.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#335

Post by jamiek88 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

oauea wrote: post #253

floatingatoll wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple considers 3 months their standard level of advance notice, with WWDC serving as your warning and the release of iOS in September as the go-live date. However, in this case, they have ended up giving you 6 months and a courtesy reminder. If you aren’t interested in maintaining your app annually, don’t publish apps on Apple’s store. Whether or not their level of notice is enough, they’ve been consistent for years…

Yet another developer-hostile apple policy. Amazing. You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point.

One man’s developer hostile is another man’s customer friendly

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#336

Post by midev » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #185

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that you don't want someone re-registering on iCloud with that gmail address because then they could impersonate you when interacting with Apple.

I still don't get it. You cancel the account, it should be gone like it never happened. Poof. If you make a new account with the same email, it should be a new account with no relation at all to the old account since that one has been deleted and is gone forever and there would be nothing to impersonate here.

> I still don't get it. You cancel the account, it should be gone like it never happened

As long as that change cascades to every single site that the user could have registered with.

Otherwise, there could be hundreds or thousands of sites waiting to email confidential information to a new person.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#337

Post by SllX » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #282

SllX wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. I cancelled the other day now that I no longer care about the pandemic data and it was basically just three minutes of politely stonewalling in a chat box saying “No Thanks, please cancel my subscription.” a couple of times. I live in California and would have tried cancelling online but actually couldn’t find the option. I can’t say it was difficult to cancel though once I picked a process and initiated it.…

> […] politely stonewalling in a chat box saying “No Thanks, please cancel my subscription.” a couple of times. > I live in California and would have tried cancelling online but actually couldn’t find the option The chatbox is the online option.

That answers that. Thanks!

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#338

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

anarchogeek wrote: post #27

What about inmutable systems? My app (using scuttlebutt) creates an 'account' but it's located as crypto keys only within the app and apple keychain. So far the apple reviewers refused to believe that it works like. It's open source, they've got the code... but still.... Same is true for anything crypto. The account as it were exists on many devices, but it's not something you as the app creator can manage. I think a…

[deleted]

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#339

Post by boplicity » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

madars wrote: post #4

gumby wrote: post #2

Wonder if this can be used to unsubscribe from The NY Times?

I heard you can change your address to California, which then gives the option to cancel online (due to state law). It is absolutely ridiculous that NYT will happily take your card info online, but require you to be on hold to speak with their "customer care" to cancel. Maybe it is time to use virtual CC's a la privacy.com.

As a side note, I got a subscription to the online edition of the NY Times included with my local newspaper. When I cancelled my local newspaper subscription, the NY Times access was never removed, meaning I have free access to the Times. I've told them about this issue several times, and they acknowledged it, and yet, I still have free access to everything. My account says I'm a "subscriber." So, apparently , it is sometimes just as hard to stop getting something for free.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#340

Post by floatingatoll » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

midev wrote: post #332

oauea wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another developer-hostile apple policy. Amazing. You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point.

If you think requiring the ability to delete your account is "developer hostile", you're exactly why this provision needs to exist. Apple is giving you six months to stop fucking your users. Sorry not sorry :\ > You have to be crazy to stake your company on apple's goodwill at this point My company has an app on the app store. We do a few hundred million dollars in sales via the app. Are we crazy?

If you could make an extra hundred million dollars by fucking over users, some would say you are crazy not to, yes. Opinions vary, but that's sort of the essence of it.