Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

developer.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 515 posts

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#221

Post by arthur_sav »

jaywalk wrote: post #53
arkh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the requirement to push that deletion to all other SSB instances? Well if you follow the GDPR: yes. Article 17.2 > Where the controller has made the personal data public and is obliged pursuant to paragraph 1 to erase the personal data, the controller, taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are…

If the personal data is encrypted and you destroy the only key that can be used to decrypt it, is it still personal data? Or is it now simply some random bytes?

What's funny is that all these laws and (appstore) rules are not very well thought.

It comes down to the individual to interpret and enforce a solution that may or may not be in compliance.

It's like doing taxes in the US. You may or may not doing it correctly and you'll only find out if they start knocking.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#222

Post by debaserab2 »

ManBlanket wrote: post #214

This policy seems purposefully vague. "Explain its data retention/deletion policies and describe how a user can revoke consent and/or request deletion of the user’s data." My first question before looking into it was, "What an auth tenant or some other service that stores user data?" or, "what about like a banking or healthcare app that is just a portal for another system?" And, "What does deleted even mean? IsDelete…

When did "deleted" become a vague term?

Deleted means removing as much PII as you reasonably have authority to do so. It means purging all that data from all databases with a guarantee that you will be removed completely from all snapshots in a reasonable amount of time.

This should be the default, normal understanding of what it means to delete your account.

It doesn't mean set a flag in a database so when your company gets acquired in a few years your new owner has a nice little trove of data to mine of people that explicitly opted out.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#223

Post by bilbo0s »

alex_c wrote: post #213
murgindrag wrote: post #131

As much as I like the change, the 3-month window seems unreasonable. I don't currently have AppStore apps, and these kinds of whiplash changes are part of the reason. Microsoft, for all its faults, is much better than Apple or Google here. Businesses take planning and strategy, and these things lead to drop-everything fires. Economies rely on stability.

This change was noticed and discussed in June, when Apple (quietly) added a clause to the App Store guidelines. We notified our clients back then. Details were very vague at the time and now we know when it will actually start being enforced, but overall it’s more like half a year notice.

I remember that change. I wondered at the time why people were not more concerned about what that change meant. I guess people either didn't fully apprehend the implications, or maybe they thought Apple wouldn't follow through?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#225

Post by floatingatoll »

murgindrag wrote: post #131

As much as I like the change, the 3-month window seems unreasonable. I don't currently have AppStore apps, and these kinds of whiplash changes are part of the reason. Microsoft, for all its faults, is much better than Apple or Google here. Businesses take planning and strategy, and these things lead to drop-everything fires. Economies rely on stability.

Apple considers 3 months their standard level of advance notice, with WWDC serving as your warning and the release of iOS in September as the go-live date.

However, in this case, they have ended up giving you 6 months and a courtesy reminder.

If you aren’t interested in maintaining your app annually, don’t publish apps on Apple’s store.

Whether or not their level of notice is enough, they’ve been consistent for years in this practice of 3 months notice for significant and breaking changes, and they seem comfortable compelling annual updates from developers. I would not expect them to care that 3 months is difficult in your circumstances, as they assume you’re prepared to maintain your app and proactively keep up with policy changes over time. It sounds like you did not attend to this year’s policy updates and may well have been out of compliance for months now. Fortunately, they offered a grace period rather than just refusing your next bugfix update. Lucky you!

(I am not sympathetic to your situation, because as a user of apps, I am exhausted of crappy apps and bottom-of-the-barrel behaviors from developers. I understand that others may feel otherwise, and that’s fine too, just as long as those feelings do not get in the way of being a responsive app developer.)

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#226

Post by mike_d »

jaywalk wrote: post #53
arkh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the requirement to push that deletion to all other SSB instances? Well if you follow the GDPR: yes. Article 17.2 > Where the controller has made the personal data public and is obliged pursuant to paragraph 1 to erase the personal data, the controller, taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are…

If the personal data is encrypted and you destroy the only key that can be used to decrypt it, is it still personal data? Or is it now simply some random bytes?

I had this exact question for our privacy legal team and the answer I got was that deleting the keys to encrypted data is legally equivalent to deleting the data itself.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#227

Post by wizzwizz4 »

EastOfTruth wrote: post #207
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are use-cases for blockchain.¹ However, storing user data is not one of them. ¹: All of them are silly, or could be done better with something else, but that's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make.

It probably could be fine for public user data that you want to spread out and be somewhat resistant to censor from governments. > but that's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make. why do you talk about it if it isn't relevant?

> It probably could be fine for public user data that you want to spread out and be somewhat resistant to censor from governments.

Can you give an example? “spread out and be somewhat resistant to censorship from governments” is just a description of blockchain's strengths¹.

> why do you talk about it if it isn't relevant?

If I didn't mention it, I'd be lying by omission. In order for this discussion to make sense, I have to make the implicit assumption that blockchain is good for anything. I have never, in my life, encountered a situation where blockchain is better than alternatives. Heck, I'm half-convinced that Bitcoin would've been better off with a block-graph (like Git); it models the dependencies better, and means attempted double-spend attacks have a lower impact on the rest of the ledger. (51% attacks would be a little easier, but only for very recent transactions, assuming even distribution of wealth² and a free market economy³.)

¹: though it isn't particularly good at either of those things in practice

²: this is a bad assumption, but it would only affect wealth hoarders so I don't care

³: this is a really bad assumption, but it wouldn't take much improvement to the world to make it a sufficiently reasonable assumption

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#228

Post by Zelizz »

gumby wrote: post #182
enos_feedler wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested to hear what dark billing patterns you are seeing rn with Apple?

Here’s one: they advertise “family” accounts: you buy an app and your purchase also covers your spouse. But your spouse has to know you (or which family member) bought it and click on their name in “family sharing” to get it for free. Else spouse will pay for it again.

> Else spouse will pay for it again

It doesn't quite work like that. When someone in your family goes to hit the purchase button, it pops up a window saying that someone else has already purchased it. I'm not sure why you have to hit the button first, maybe for some measure of privacy from your family members?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#229

Post by wizzwizz4 »

SilasX wrote: post #187
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bank lets you create an account just from the app? … Okay, the digital-only ones, maybe. But virtually all other banks I've used make you go to a branch.

I signed up for Schwab (and numerous other financial institutions that were not "banks" per se) without having to go to a branch in person. You usually just submit photos of documents and, in some cases, have your picture taken at your computer.

Ah, yeah, that was the issue; I didn't have documents. I now remember that I could've signed up entirely online, had I had them.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#230

Post by heartbreak »

gumby wrote: post #182
enos_feedler wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be interested to hear what dark billing patterns you are seeing rn with Apple?

Here’s one: they advertise “family” accounts: you buy an app and your purchase also covers your spouse. But your spouse has to know you (or which family member) bought it and click on their name in “family sharing” to get it for free. Else spouse will pay for it again.

That’s simply not true. My spouse and I buy apps all the time from the App Store and when you try to pay for it, it pops up a message that a family member already has and proceeds to the download.
Post reply on HN