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NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

arstechnica.com

331–340 of 546 posts

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#331

> His hands were not detected on the steering wheel for the final six seconds prior to the crash. > Tesla has said that Huang received warnings to put his hands on the wheel, but according to the NTSB, these warnings came more than 15 minutes before the crash. > Tesla has emphasized that a damaged crash attenuator had contributed to the severity of the crash. These may or may not have been factors contributing to the…

Tesla acknowledges that autopilot can fail.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#333
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the government ever do that?/s Did you hear what happened to the whistle blower that leaked vault 7? Apparently he had a bunch of child porn on his computer[0]. Crazy huh? [0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/ex-cia-employee-...

There was probably an extra thumb drive of child porn for Snowden but he escaped capture.

....what thumb drive?

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#334
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must also never be worse than humans. In this case, it very clearly was.

Except a human driver had just recently crashed in the exact same spot - that's why the divider's crash bumper was damaged at the time of the Tesla accident. I think there's no excuse for shipping an "autopilot" system that can't detect massive, stationary objects in broad daylight, but humans also do crash in those exact circumstances all the time.

It needs to be better than a sober, awake, human of the type who typically buys a Tesla. That would be the fair comparison, not just a random member of the public with a 20 year old car. Better than a drunk human driver, or a 90 year old is not a standard reasonable people care about when they say “better than a human.”

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#335
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery failure? You're expecting their engineers to design a battery that remains safe after a 70mph crash into a barrier?

Five days after the crash doesn’t seem unreasonable. I wonder if some kind of inerting compound can be developed for lithium batteries for use by firefighters and the like.

To 'inert' it properly, you'd have to extract all the energy, which is going to look pretty much the same as burning it.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#336
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an equivalent safety standard for ICE vehicles? I don't think a gas task would do particularly well in the exact same circumstance either

ICE vehicles don't typically spontaneously combust after a crash...

Right. They sometimes spontaneously combust even without crashes.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#337
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps us fingers-in-ears Musk fans don't expect the AP to be perfect. Especially considering how new the fields are. Autopilot doesn't need to be perfect, just better than humans.

So because the field is new, it's okay that a human being is dead?

It's not just that the field is new, it's that 1) SO MANY people die constantly in cars, and this is the start of trying to change that permanently but it cannot be perfect out of the gate, 2) nor should we wait until it's perfect if waiting that long means more people die.

Ultimately, we cannot rely on mere anecdotes. We need statistics that show it is worse. If it's as bad as the media coverage claims it is, it should be easy to demonstrate such statistics.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#338
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an equivalent safety standard for ICE vehicles? I don't think a gas task would do particularly well in the exact same circumstance either

ICE vehicles don't typically spontaneously combust after a crash...

If the combustion occurs as the result of a crash, can that really be said to be “spontaneous?”

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This kind of stuff is why I’ve lost all faith in Tesla’s public statements. I don't understand why they would issue any statement other than, 'condolences, we're committed to safety, we're working with the NTSB to understand what happened'

I think Musk strongly believes that flipping the switch to sacrifice 1 and save 5 in the trolley problem is clearly the correct choice. If the numbers show that less people die with self driving cars than with them, then that is the right choice. I suspect he even believes that the people that die along the way in the transitional periods are worth it if that is what it takes to save hundreds of thousands of lives in…

Except it's something more petty, like his ego is too invested in not using LIDAR.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more thing to note - anecdotal evidence indicates that Tesla cars did not attempt to center within a lane prior to an OTA update, after which multiple cars exhibited this "centering" action into gore sections (and thus required manual input to avoid an incident) on video. To me, that this behavior was added via an update makes it even harder to predict - your car can pass a particular section of road without inci…

And this is exactly why all of these articles recently about how "great" it is that Tesla sends out frequent OTA updates are ridiculous. Frequent, unpredictable updates with changelogs that just read "Improvements and bug fixes" is fine when we're talking about a social media app, but is entirely unacceptable when we're talking about the software that controls a 2 ton hunk of metal flying at 70mph with humans inside…

More accurately: move fast and save some lives and kill people.
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