How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#331

Post by lorenzorhoades » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 6:59 AM UTC

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #285

SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, funding a $600 billion military industrial complex [0]. Just think, your complete yearly taxes were probably almost enough for a single JDAM [1] which was then dropped on Iraq, in a war where 13% of all civilians were killed directly by US-led forces [2], and many more in the chaos that ensued from the invasion. But you love it. [0] - https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/military-spendi... [1] - https://…

Why precisely is having the worlds largest military bad? Do you think it doesnt add any value? It seems theres a lot of people outside of America who'd like to see it shrunk for very bad reasons. Why not keep the military and solve our problems without it? We need it to be safe now, and until we've already solved our problems, we'll still need it. Obviously it doesn't always work well and it definitely causes problem…

I agree with you completely. There are so many unknown benefits that we gain with having such a large military that its very hard to calculate. Also, one of the worst things that could ever possibly happen in a war is being evenly matched. If one country (or group) isn't completely superior in every way, the war becomes a meat grinder and lasts longer than it should have.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#332

Post by joering2 » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:08 AM UTC

azernik wrote: post #278

mikeash wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS is totally explicit about this: "Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity." "If you receive a bribe, include it in your income." "You must include kickbacks, side commissions, push money, or similar payments you receive in your income on Fo…

That's fantastic. Especially the theft part.

Im not sure if there is anythng special about it. You can take a bribe, get caught and sentenced but that doesn't excuse you from paying taxes. IRS just wants their cut; they are not criminal law enforcers, just a collection agency.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#333

Post by lorenzorhoades » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:11 AM UTC

Gustomaximus wrote: post #324

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why precisely is having the worlds largest military bad? Do you think it doesnt add any value? It seems theres a lot of people outside of America who'd like to see it shrunk for very bad reasons. Why not keep the military and solve our problems without it? We need it to be safe now, and until we've already solved our problems, we'll still need it. Obviously it doesn't always work well and it definitely causes problem…

The bad is there is an opportunity cost of dollars spent. And the US could likely still dominate global firepower rankings at half the current spend, meanwhile this saving could significantly improve the education or health system with that money. Or reduce the tax burden on people. Or simply bank it to reduce the debt and burden of repayment for future years. Lots you could do with hundreds of billions.

Some people would disagree with you. I believe military and defense spending should actually be one of the only role of governments. Leave healthcare and education to industry. Let the free market decide the curriculum, teachers salaries, and come up with innovative ways of teaching. I see no reason Khan academy shouldn't be allowed to teach our children. Since when did it become common place to allow a government to come up with a path of study, and make it mandatory to send your kid to for 13 years? As governments slowly accept more and more social programs, the government balloons. Value produced slowly stops representing capital. In germany, where social programs are abundant you get a lot of leeches on the economy. Very long unemployment timeframes, with reltively good pay, Full health coverage, unlimited sick time if you have a doctors note. In a system that can be "gamed", there will be a large amount of people who do so.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#334

Post by lukevdp » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:17 AM UTC

wycx wrote: post #294

School-Cotton wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it fair to give a deduction for mortgage? Buying a home instead of renting is just choosing to invest in real estate instead of anything else you might invest in. Why artificially subsidize one extremely illiquid and volatile type of investment?

If you think that is bad, wait until you discover the situation in Australia. In the US, you get a deduction for interest on your primary residence. In Australia, you cannot do that, but instead, you get to make a deduction of interest in any investment property you own against your personal income! Plus investment properties have a lower capital gains tax rate than other asset classes. The tax laws in this country a…

Can someone from US confirm the tax treatment of interest on investment loans? Are they counted as an expense? Can losses from an investment property be deducted against other income?

Also, in US is there any capital gains discount for property?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#335

Post by PeterStuer » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:21 AM UTC

krisroadruck wrote: post #218

rayiner wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

You... love paying taxes?

I have no problem with taxes, just with the ways they are being spent.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#336

Post by Trill-I-Am » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:25 AM UTC

aithoughts wrote: post #216

rhizome wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't they have to adapt to rapid changes in the "free" market like we do? Notice it wasn't called anything like the "dot-com gradual-and-not-too-painful realignment." Why the special consideration for tax people? I mean, if we're going to vaunt the free market, let's let it splash everybody, not just the little guys.

I'm surprised most people don't think like this. I think that we have a cultural problem. People chose to take out loans for their tertiary education because of our beliefs in the tertiary educational system. College is to get a job, but we believe it's there for us to "discover ourselves." And that's how we end up with accountants. Sometimes I wish there was some website where non-partisan smart people scientificall…

Such a list isn't possible because of differing interpretations of reality and basic facts and differing interpretations of what even constitutes a problem.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#337

Post by cderwin » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:27 AM UTC

wbl wrote: post #239

ransom1538 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that bad in the US using turbo tax. Just remember to answer no to receiving payments from the "Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement". (Actual question).

Why should I have to pay $100 to file my taxes?

HR Block is free if you just file a 1040, the "professional" version is $40. If you're paying $100, either you are seeing a tax professional in person or you are vastly overpaying. Presumably you would only meet with a tax professional if your situation is significantly more complicated than most.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#338

Post by curun1r » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:32 AM UTC

jkeat wrote: post #320

curun1r wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intuit's lobbying isn't limited to opposing return-free filing. They also lobby to keep the tax code at a certain level of complexity that puts the most Americans in the sweet spot between too complex to feel comfortable using software and too simple to need software. FWIW, the reason that Intuit believes that return-free filing is a bad idea is that they believe that you need someone who advocates for the biggest re…

Just curious, could you elaborate on your opposing view?

As the Sinclair quote goes, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Intuit has a $3b/yr interest in thinking that return-free filing is a bad idea. I think this country would be better off if people didn't have to spend that money and the inordinate time commitment that filing taxes currently consumes. And I think that Intuit not believing this is a rationalization of the need to protect that revenue stream.

As someone who was employed by a company that was acquired by Intuit, I've been very conflicted about my own good fortune being connected with Intuit's activities in this area. About 6 months ago, I decided to divest all my Intuit stock, not because I felt it wouldn't perform well, but because I don't want to be making money off what I see as unethical behavior. Intuit is, in most respects, a very ethical company. But in this one area, I don't think they are.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#339

Post by cderwin » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:33 AM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #219

xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

because far too many people vote against their own interest just so gay people can't get married, or transgenders using the right bathrooms or to stop the war on christmas or whatever fake crisis was invented for that election year.

> because far too many people vote against their own interest

You don't get to decide what other people's interests are, and you certainly cannot make an empirical case that the interests of all individuals would be better served by voting one way or the other. This sort of reductionism and failure to interact with people you disagree with in good faith ought to have no place on a professional forum like this.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#340

Post by ptaipale » Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 7:34 AM UTC

euyyn wrote: post #166

foota wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States has a complicated tax code because it attempts to make things more "fair" for some people. Some of these are things people like, such as deductions for people with children, paying mortage, etc. Some are more dubious.

> The United States has a complicated tax code because it attempts to make things more "fair" for some people. As opposed to the other countries with automated taxes, that don't attempt it?

Well, yes. For instance, Finland, where I live, has a very much simplified income tax collection procedure. Deductions for people with children have been eliminated. Deductions for mortgages are being eliminated. All this in the name of simplicity and, yes, fairness.

After all, if you can afford a mortgage, you are clearly well-off, so you should be taxed more.

(And there is a good point: Mortgage deductions distort the housing market. But rent subsidies distort it even more.)