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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#211

Post by mikeash »

azernik wrote: post #175
xupybd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you have to file an IR3 if you make other income. http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/end-year/ir3/ii... My favourite part of our tax system is the advice to file if you have "income from an illegal enterprise" EDIT: Just as a reply to the original point. I'm not sure how complicated the US system is. I'm not trying to say it's bad either, it just seems to me that we have a system similar to the one that…

This advice is probably not explicitly given by the IRS, but it is what any decent tax attorney will tell you. They got Al Capone not for his other crimes, but for tax evasion.

The IRS is totally explicit about this:

"Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity."

"If you receive a bribe, include it in your income."

"You must include kickbacks, side commissions, push money, or similar payments you receive in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040), if from your self-employment activity."

"If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless in the same year, you return it to its rightful owner."

See: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#212

Post by problems »

hackuser wrote: post #167
problems wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local software doesn't really carry the same security concern. With cloud-based or in-person tax preparation, there's a risk that a single breach could compromise many, many tax returns. With offline software you have no such exposure, it's not like it's exposing open ports to the internet. At least in Canada there's a whole slew of free tax preparation software available, offline desktop and cloud-based. The gov…

> With offline software you have no such exposure Generally I agree that it's a higher cost and therefore less valuable target, but there are ways to mass deploy some exploits. For example, you could use a browser exploit to obtain access, and then use that to mass deploy an exploit on tax return software.

Browser exploit? What? On software that runs completely locally - without a browser, then only connects over SSL to a single government-run server? How exactly do you propose that would work?

Do you mean to suggest that malware unrelated entirely to the tax software has an impact on its security? I mean... you'd have the whole host machine compromised - no need to "exploit" the tax software at all, you can get that and a lot more than just taxes off there - but it's still hard to do in true bulk. Much worse than a simple database dump and would only affect people who browsed to your site during the time of the exploit. Much more limited than anyone who used a given service.

Additionally, full browser exploits these days are very rare and extremely valuable though. I doubt you'd see one wasted on such a purpose - at least, one that still works if you keep reasonably up to date.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#213

Post by vlunkr »

jjeaff wrote: post #160
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

It's almost that simple in the US if your situation is that simple. What happens in NZ if you make $400 selling vintage cabbage patch dolls on eBay? What if you earned $1k in returns on your investment account? What if you are renting your place out on Airbnb? If all you have is a simple income in the US, then the 1040ez is a single page and you can file it for free online if you make under a certain amount. You can…

> don't need or want the subsidy.

That's hilarious.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#214

Post by rayiner »

It's not really a credible idea that an industry accounting for 0.05% of U.S. GDP somehow manages to out-lobby the industries representing the other 99.95% of GDP, so as to keep tax filing complicated when otherwise there would be a critical mass in favor of simplification.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#215

Post by rayiner »

xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this?

Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with.

I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes total sense.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#216

Post by aithoughts »

rhizome wrote: post #127
cmurf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words, the free market has produced a pile of jobs that we don't really need? Lobbyists get paid money to get politicians to supply a deduction as a line item on some obscure form, which increases red tape, which requires a need for a free market service, the revenue from that service in turn goes to feed more lobbying for more red tape. This is basically collusion, using the worst aspects of the free mar…

Why shouldn't they have to adapt to rapid changes in the "free" market like we do? Notice it wasn't called anything like the "dot-com gradual-and-not-too-painful realignment." Why the special consideration for tax people? I mean, if we're going to vaunt the free market, let's let it splash everybody, not just the little guys.

I'm surprised most people don't think like this.

I think that we have a cultural problem. People chose to take out loans for their tertiary education because of our beliefs in the tertiary educational system. College is to get a job, but we believe it's there for us to "discover ourselves." And that's how we end up with accountants.

Sometimes I wish there was some website where non-partisan smart people scientifically identified the current problems and come up with a finite, exhaustive list of possible problems. And then, determine the amount of money it would take to test a hypothesis. If they do and it fails, then they must take into account that hypothesis and correct for it.

How much money would need to be raised?

It's just too bad that I've never encountered anyone in real life that thinks like this. It feels so intuitive when you approach it like a computer problem.

I think the problem is that that political science is paradoxical in itself and goes against on of the most important tenets of science and reason: that we must give up our beliefs if the evidence proves them wrong.

Is there anyone out there who is balanced enough to actually be bipartisan? How would one search for such a unicorn? Is it really impossible?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#217

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jjeaff wrote: post #160
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

It's almost that simple in the US if your situation is that simple. What happens in NZ if you make $400 selling vintage cabbage patch dolls on eBay? What if you earned $1k in returns on your investment account? What if you are renting your place out on Airbnb? If all you have is a simple income in the US, then the 1040ez is a single page and you can file it for free online if you make under a certain amount. You can…

Just fill out the PDF and mail it in. Free no matter how much you make. They have been saveable for some years now so you can use them as records.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#218

Post by krisroadruck »

rayiner wrote: post #215
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

> Why would anyone oppose a simple system like this? Because you want to make people angry and upset at least once a year at the government? Because you want to remind people that taxes are something the government takes, instead of letting them think of taxes as money they never earned to begin with. I love paying my taxes, but if you think taxes are bad (and lots of people do), then the current U.S. system makes to…

You... love paying taxes?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#219

Post by wnevets »

xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

because far too many people vote against their own interest just so gay people can't get married, or transgenders using the right bathrooms or to stop the war on christmas or whatever fake crisis was invented for that election year.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#220

Post by vkou »

cmurf wrote: post #113
gst wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mantra is "file your taxes before someone else does", because the number of people who are submitting their tax form only to find out it's already been submitted is greater than ever before. The IRS is liable for losses due to fraud, so why would I care about fraud? It's up to the IRS to secure their systems.

You have to prove they're liable first. It's unlikely they'd admit it, and even more unlikely that you'd get a prosecutor to take your case.

Actually, it is incredibly likely that they'll admit it, and that you won't have to go to court over it.

That's not to say that it will won't be a huge pain in the neck.

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