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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#331

Post by ufmace »

DanBC wrote: post #262
wfo wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propaganda was not particularly effective while aimed at children since its primary vehicle was tying opposition of drug use as a way to signal and support racism which was a particular societal trait the children had not yet learned. Opposition of drug use was a way to express racism without actually expressing it once it became taboo following the civil rights era. The racism strategy was a much more powerful a…

The illegality of drugs means that criminal organisations use the manufacture and supply of drugs as one way to make money. Terrorist organisations need to smuggle things into and out of their target country (weapons, money, people) and so they have expertise that they can use to smuggle drugs. This link between terrorist groups and drugs is not new. Even groups who are strongly anti-drugs end up having connections t…

This reminds me of an article I read where somebody recommended abolishing the $100 note, as it was too associated with crime, and it would inconvenience criminals to have to carry bigger bundles of $20s. I wonder if/how often criminal organizations use drugs as a substitute for money for being easier to transport, verify, etc. I wonder how much that would increase if they did abolish the $100.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#332

Post by linkregister »

existencebox wrote: post #305
linkregister wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a funny statement to me, since it ignores everything that happened after 1789. The evolution of a more centralized government was the result of conscious decisions by the public and lawmakers to overcome the challenges of a loose confederation. Hell, the Constitution itself was drafted to solve the problem of arbitrarily differing business rules and trade agreements between the several states.

I'm not sure how anything I said "ignores post 1789". In fact, my statement is precisely calling out that our history is one of incremental codification and precedent forming which has tended to constrain state vs federal power. In fact I feel like I'd be "ignoring" more had I argued the opposite point, that states still had as significant power as they once did, since that power balance was tested as quickly as 2 ye…

No you're right; I didn't fully comprehend your post. I thought you were disagreeing with the parent post but you were in fact qualifying it. I agree with everything you said.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#333

Post by EdHominem »

ufmace wrote: post #299
EdHominem wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. Not true. Many people reasonably take the pills their doctor gives them and end up with an addiction. > That poses another moral question: if drugs are harmful and addictive, why can't society ban people from selling them Because you can't. It failed. It's not a moral question. In fact, that's specifically the problem. > but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. So…

>> but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. >So, what of it? We should keep doing things we know don't work because the uninformed don't understand? So we live in a democracy, and so have to pay at least some attention to what the people want. The alternative is a dictatorship of some sort. Historically, those tend to ignore cost-benefit analysis and whether or not things actually work just as much as any d…

Sure we care what the people want. If they don't want to die in fires we hire fire-professionals and fund them to prevent and extinguish fires, teach fire-safety, etc.

Somehow people don't consider it a dictatorship that we don't poll the common person for fire-safety law...

And especially in an area (drugs) where we know that hundreds of millions of dollars of propaganda and advertising have been spent on teaching lies, we shouldn't pretend that polling the victims is going to be informative in relation to their natural (untampered) desires.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#334

Post by ZenoArrow »

logicrook wrote: post #288
mtreis86 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assertments about drinking and driving and the probabilities of harmful outcomes. I just don't think it is a good analogy for hardcore drug use. Many of us did not choose to start taking drugs. Not with any real sense of context. The consequences are very often "not real" until they become "all too real." A better analogy, would be "What do you do when you find yourself in a car moving at high speed…

The whole "drug users are victims" makes absolutely no more sense that "any criminal is a victim". You can't find a single person in the world who doesn't have bad circumstances. Even the people at Goldman-Sachs may have had a bad history of bullying, a difficult childhood because of divorce, a family that induced an unhealthy relation to competition or money, whatever. This example is not even a joke. Many "privileg…

> "The whole "drug users are victims" makes absolutely no more sense that "any criminal is a victim"."

What about people who become addicted to prescription drugs like painkillers and sleeping tablets? There may have been sound medical reasons for their use at the start.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#335

Post by ZenoArrow »

ufmace wrote: post #299
EdHominem wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. Not true. Many people reasonably take the pills their doctor gives them and end up with an addiction. > That poses another moral question: if drugs are harmful and addictive, why can't society ban people from selling them Because you can't. It failed. It's not a moral question. In fact, that's specifically the problem. > but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. So…

>> but voters aren't driven by cost-benefit analysis. >So, what of it? We should keep doing things we know don't work because the uninformed don't understand? So we live in a democracy, and so have to pay at least some attention to what the people want. The alternative is a dictatorship of some sort. Historically, those tend to ignore cost-benefit analysis and whether or not things actually work just as much as any d…

> "So we live in a democracy, and so have to pay at least some attention to what the people want."

Why isn't marijuana legal across the US then?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/186260/back-legal-marijuana.aspx

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#336

Post by drcube »

rayiner wrote: post #210
soneca wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The history said, in this case, that money and power did not win the dispute, not that their influence does not exist or should be considered negligible. So, if in the case of drugs, society moral standards, money and power are all at the same side; what's the chance of grassroot movement changing the laws? That question was not rethorical, but giving my own answer, I think the path is changing the perceptio…

You're ignoring a morally significant dimension to the problem. Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. They choose to do drugs and take the risk not just of bodily harm, but of becoming unable to support their families and becoming a burden on society. And your suggestion is that society should spend money to treat them of an illness that was their fault to begin with. I happen to agree with you that treatment, no…

Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only disease that you can get yelled at for having.

"Dammit Otto, you're an alcoholic!" vs. "Dammit Otto, you have lupus!"

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#337

Post by ZenoArrow »

chongli wrote: post #243
Zigurd wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the moral panic thing backwards. Alcohol is by far the greatest cause of addiction, addiction-related violence, and economic misery due to substance abuse. So much so that hard drug use and addiction is a drop in the bucket. Alcohol prohibition was relatively well-supported in social reform theories compared to the Drug War. There is no functional basis to support legal bans on psychedelics and soft drugs. T…

Alcohol is by far the greatest cause of addiction, addiction-related violence, and economic misery due to substance abuse. I don't think it's been established that alcohol causes alcoholism. In fact, research shows that excessive drinking does not correlate with alcoholism[0]. A much stronger predictor of alcoholism is SES. So if we really want to fight alcoholism, we should be fighting poverty. [0] http://www.cdc.go…

As far as I know, there are two broad types of addiction... physical addiction and psychological addiction. In terms of addiction to substances, people that become physically addicted to a substance will experience physical withdrawl symptoms if that substance is taken away. Psychological addiction is based on repeatedly trying to fix a psychological issue with a substance.

People are much more likely to become psychologically addicted to alcohol than physically addicted. Alcohol provides an escape mechanism for social issues, it is that quality that makes it addictive, it doesn't need to have the same level of physical addictiveness of other drugs in order to be addictive.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#338

Post by ZenoArrow »

lisivka wrote: post #181
pigpaws wrote: post #34

legalize, standardize, regulate, tax, repeat. Why is this so difficult to understand?

We have enough problems with already legalized and standardized drugs: alcohol and tobacco. It is not wise to let smokers to increase burden on society.

You don't reduce usage of drugs by criminalising them. That's what this article is all about. If you're interested in seeing the negative effects of drug use decrease, then you should be looking at other approaches other than criminalisation.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#339

Post by jessaustin »

metaphorm wrote: post #320
saiya-jin wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

touching story... nowhere I ever lived in europe I met people that got hooked on these prescription drugs (and even ended up worse), at least I didn't know. is this just my case? or some laws in US are less prohibitive (but where are the doctor's morals? don't tell me all are rotten)

http://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/hhs_prescription_drug_ab... you might find this interesting reading then. here's a quote from the executive summary. > The United States is in the midst of an unprecedented drug overdose epidemic. Drug overdose death rates have increased five-fold since 1980.1 By 2009, drug overdose deaths outnumbered deaths due to motor vehicle crashes for the first time in the U.S. Prescription d…

Clearly, we need more Drug War.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#340

Post by hansihe »

morninj wrote: post #330
saiya-jin wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was not the intent... those guys have probably some tough lives behind them and no future here, living often without permit on the fringe of society. it's just that meeting them in dark alleys after dark, being surrounded by suspicion etc. ain't activity I do for pleasure or some weird kick out of it; just a necessary evil.

OK, but their race is still irrelevant.

But there is no reason not to point it out. He made an observation about the drug dealers in his area, and mentioned it. I don't see why there would be anything more to it than that.
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