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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#31

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

vzcx wrote: post #28
wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

I assume you mean "rational, if your goal is to decrease drug use." If that is the case, one must also consider all of the costs involved in making the drugs illegal, from paying people to enforce their illegality (DEA, border agents, customs inspections), increased burdens on the legal system, and the funding more prisons, the increase in thefts committed by addicts due to the rise in prices, increased burden on med…

And, clearly, that goal is so vague as to be meaningless. How are "drugs" being defined? How are you deciding which substances should have their usage reduced and which shouldn't?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#32

Post by wfunction »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #27
wfunction wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "dangerous" I meant in the typical, colloquial sense (e.g. more likely to kill you in a shorter amount of time or what have you)...

"colloquial sense" ... "or what have you" This right here is why we don't have a sensible drug policy; many, many people think like this when approaching the subject.

I was merely trying to describe a category of drugs so that I can ask a question about it; you can name it whatever you want so that you can answer it, but your condescending tone and lack of an answer isn't exactly helpful in responding to the question. If you don't like my category you can always feel free to ask your own questions about other ones instead of changing mine.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#33

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

wfunction wrote: post #30
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not all or nothing. If you legalized cannabis for example, you may find that users switch to that from more harmful drugs such as alcohol, or opiates. In particular, by buying from controlled suppliers, rather than the black-market, makes them less likely to be offered worse stuff as alternatives. By then reducing the size of the black market, you drain it of customers and money, and make it easier to poli…

> There's also the fact that horse-riding, backyard pools, gun ownership, rock climbing, not eating well or excercising enough as likely to kill you as some drugs, so a consistent approach to that would be welcome too. Unlike the use of drugs, almost all of the things you mentioned fall under category of "exercise", which (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe is medically accepted to have immense benefits, whereas I'm…

> almost all

Unless they all are, you don't really have a point. But, for the sake of argument, pretend the list was "gun ownership, not eating well, not exercising enough" - i.e. 3 out of the original 6 (which, apparently, is "almost all"). Feel free to add any of the many, many activities which aren't "exercise" but are more likely to decrease your life expectancy such as driving, sitting, crossing the road, ...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#35

Post by falsestprophet »

akie wrote: post #5
smegel wrote: post #2

It really is a difficult problem. Sweden legalized heroin in the 60s and it was a disaster. On the other hand, enforcement only has a moderate impact, but comes at a huge financial and social cost. And while I don't support it, the only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore, where you just hang anyone who has more than single dose in their possession. Maybe the grim reality is hanging a few hundred…

The US incarcerated very significant percentages of its black male population under the guise of the "war on drugs" and I'm not sure if it made much of a difference. Drug use in the US is certainly not lower than in comparable countries, so I'm not sure if you could conclude that removing people from society in order to address the "drug problem" is necessarily an idea backed by solid data.

This is a common misconception.

Only 20% of state and federal prisoners (those serving more than a one year sentence) have drug crimes as their most serious conviction.

80% of prisoners are serving time for violent (47.7%), property (17.1%), or public order crimes (13.8%) that no one would argue are victimless.

While some of the other crime is related to drugs, the point is that 80% of the prisoners in the US have grievously victimized our fellow citizens and residents and are not innocent "[people removed] from society in order to address the 'drug problem'" as the parent comment stated.

Source: http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#36

Post by tomp »

random_upvoter wrote: post #10
AndrewDucker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore" So, completely discounting the massive improvements in Portugal since decriminalisation?

Note that manufacture, import and sale of drugs is still illegal in Portugal. I find it hard to understand why so many people in the US want to switch drug policy from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. It's a rash social experiment with consequences that are hard to predict.

I don't know about the people in the US, but I can tell you why I want to completely legalize drugs. I see only benefits (less organized crime) with no downsides (I don't think drug usage will increase, as drugs are extremely easy to get even now). Note that the prices don't need to drop - the government could still tax drugs even higher than they tax alcohol and tobacco now - so there's no economical argument why the demand would increase.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#37

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

falsestprophet wrote: post #35
akie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US incarcerated very significant percentages of its black male population under the guise of the "war on drugs" and I'm not sure if it made much of a difference. Drug use in the US is certainly not lower than in comparable countries, so I'm not sure if you could conclude that removing people from society in order to address the "drug problem" is necessarily an idea backed by solid data.

This is a common misconception. Only 20% of state and federal prisoners (those serving more than a one year sentence) have drug crimes as their most serious conviction. 80% of prisoners are serving time for violent (47.7%), property (17.1%), or public order crimes (13.8%) that no one would argue are victimless. While some of the other crime is related to drugs, the point is that 80% of the prisoners in the US have gr…

Presumably, at least some proportion of that 80% is related to the legal status of drugs. E.g. robbery to support payment of inflated black-market prices, protection of production operations, etc.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#38

Post by lossolo »

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, extort etc.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#39

Post by shawabawa3 »

wfunction wrote: post #22
Yaggo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far more dangerous ones, such as alcohol? Tobacco is already the 6th dangerous drug in the world. http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/whats-most-dangerous-...

By "dangerous" I meant in the typical, colloquial sense (e.g. more likely to kill you in a shorter amount of time or what have you)...

I think you've taken in too much drug war propaganda.

Heroin, if unadulterated, is incredibly safe.

There are virtually no long-term health effects, and most overdoses/deaths are caused by it being unknown quality or cut with dangerous substances.[1] The only reason it's dangerous is prohibition

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#40

Post by vzcx »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #31
vzcx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean "rational, if your goal is to decrease drug use." If that is the case, one must also consider all of the costs involved in making the drugs illegal, from paying people to enforce their illegality (DEA, border agents, customs inspections), increased burdens on the legal system, and the funding more prisons, the increase in thefts committed by addicts due to the rise in prices, increased burden on med…

And, clearly, that goal is so vague as to be meaningless. How are "drugs" being defined? How are you deciding which substances should have their usage reduced and which shouldn't?

Of course. The list of scheduled substances is arbitrary, and must be constantly expanded as new neuroreceptor ligands are invented.

When I consider subparagraph A of the Federal Analog Act, I sometimes wonder if what is actually desired by drug-control advocates is to make certain states of mind illegal. That there could be legislation defining legal and illegal patterns of brain activity is quite a trip in itself. I thought cyberpunk was dead.

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