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U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

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321–330 of 540 posts

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many million graduate students do you need to give the US the military hegemony and political influence over allies and adversaries that the F-35 program provides ? Looked at from a policy maker's viewpoint, things look very different.

Wouldn't take very many at all, we've now learned these past four years (and even the past 2 months). All you need are drones, that are pennies on the dollar cheaper than trillion-dollar militaries. Depending on the munition, a single bomb we drop on Iran could cost between $40,000 and a couple million dollars. Think of all the high-end drones you could buy instead. Everything is changing. Including our influence.

> Wouldn't take very many at all, we've now learned these past four years (and even the past 2 months). All you need are drones, that are pennies on the dollar cheaper than trillion-dollar militaries.

You make an incorrect conclusion which is unfortunately both quite popular and incorrect among westerners who read two and half editorials about Russo-Ukrainian war in some NYT/WAPO/whatever and think they now understand modern warfare. The reality of the situation is that drones are a very useful tool, but any side achieving actual air supremacy would result their fighters and bombers cruising over frontline and enemy towns on low altitudes taking out any high-value targets at whim. The situation would be similar to boots-on-the-ground phase of The Iraq War, resulting one of the sides to rapidly gaining ground and winning the war. Keep in mind that the cited "40k per-hour" price is quite cheap compared to per-hour operation cost of any kind of big ground force.

In fact, last thing US wants is to be in Russia's shoes unable to meaningfully advance into the territory of by all measures much weaker enemy.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic science is never cheap, but none of that money goes to the grad students. Then again, military weapons are indeed insanely expensive.

Some of that money goes to the grad students. Source: I paid grad students the majority of my research funding for 16 years, and so did all my colleagues. Unless you’re building a new facility at CERN, etc, the bulk of research cost is people.

I don’t think this is really about salary.

The “whole thing” is never cheap. Running something like a university — providing the environment, infrastructure, administration, facilities, compliance systems, equipment, libraries, grants offices, laboratories, and institutional platform that allow professors and graduate students to do research — is itself extremely expensive.

After all, if you look at the fiscal budgets of major economies, public spending on education and research is often much larger than military spending.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US could/can, they're just not willing to undergo the mass casualties it would take to put boots on the ground and put those boots up the ass of the people controlling Hormuz. Which absolutely cannot be achieved purely by air.

US military ain't some unstoppable force in all possible scenarios, it was stopped and won over quite a few times, last time I recall by taliban sheepherders. In some cases like first Iraq war yes, but they don't wage those wars anymore. And all mental limits re casualties are very real limits just like other. Its like saying russia could/can conquer whole Europe, if only X, Y and Z. That effectively means they can't…

  > last time I recall by taliban sheepherders
Part of the reason that Americans prefer to lose that war is because the enemy is called "sheepherders", implying innocent civilians, when the military is winning. The blurring of when a militant is referred to as a civilian has proven to be a very effective tactic to reduce the American population's tolerance for war.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#324
post #75

What really puts all of this into perspective for me is I work in academia and one of my friends works for a defense contractor. He told me the maintenance cost per flight hour of F-35 was a bit more than $40k, which is significantly more than I make in a year as a grad student. It's crazy basic science is what's been the focus of so many cuts while it's so cheap.

I wouldn't assume that this is about cost cutting. If the goal were saving money, the cheapest option by far would be to leave the hardware in the water and just stop funding the monitoring. Instead the plan is an expensive operation to send ships out to extract 900+ instruments from under two miles of ocean. It's clear that this is driven by performative climate denialism and a pro fossil fuel stance. The Trump admi…

I don't believe Trump himself makes any of these decisions, and as for deals I don't think he remembers what happened yesterday let alone a deal made on the campaign trail. Parties in his administration are actively trying to destroy science and cripple any kind of climate research or green energy development, even if it costs nothing. Whoever they are, they make these plans and then get him to sign while he's awake.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#325
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But… why? Climate change is very much real and even stubborn deep-right voters like my father now ‘believe’ in it. Ok, some people make some cash. But wouldn’t they anyway? I don’t understand this need to keep pandering to a minority and to destroy ecosystems.

The government knows it's real, these are generally well-educated people who went to decent schools. But, I would challenge that most right-wing voters know whether it is real. Where I live in rural America the vast majority are pro-fossil fuel, anti-EV. EVs are seen as "gay" or "feminine" by the folks out here. So the choice to use fossil fuels might just be some performative machismo, allowing their pick-ups to out…

I don't believe they do any of this for votes. I think somebody within the administration has a personal grudge against science, especially anything related to climate change.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> last major source of instability in the region. Are you forgetting the bad neighbor that keeps attacking most of its other neighbors, even while under ceasefire agreements? And then moving onto the land and saying "this is ours, time to redraw the border again.". Because that, to me, screams instability.

You mean the bad neighbor whom Iran has constantly funded attacks on from those other neighbors? The bad neighbor who has IRGC Funded terrorist and militant cells along its very border? You mean the bad neighbor whom comes under rocket fire on a routine basis? Are we forgetting that Iran is the one who has funded Hamas and Hezbollah and provided them safe haven? Maybe that bad neighbor wouldn’t be a bad neighbor and…

The people downvoting your comment should be aware of a few things:

1. The ceasefire with Lebanon specifically states that Hezbollah is to retreat to the Litany river, which they have not done. The ceasefire further states that military operations against Hezbollah are permitted so long as they remain south of the Litany, and so long as they attack Israel. They attack Israel daily - Israel is not breaking the ceasefire. That's why popular news use the term "Israel attacks despite ceasefire" instead saying "Israel breaks ceasefire" - because Israel is not the side breaking the ceasefire.

2. Hezbollah attacked Israel unprovoked on October 8th 2023, leading to the current conflict.

3. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis have been internally displaced since then. Popular media calls internally displaced Gazans refugees, yet I've never seen this term applied to the internally displaced Israelis.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#327
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't assume that this is about cost cutting. If the goal were saving money, the cheapest option by far would be to leave the hardware in the water and just stop funding the monitoring. Instead the plan is an expensive operation to send ships out to extract 900+ instruments from under two miles of ocean. It's clear that this is driven by performative climate denialism and a pro fossil fuel stance. The Trump admi…

But… why? Climate change is very much real and even stubborn deep-right voters like my father now ‘believe’ in it. Ok, some people make some cash. But wouldn’t they anyway? I don’t understand this need to keep pandering to a minority and to destroy ecosystems.

It all makes sense when you realize QAnon basically runs the white house now. There’s a very insulated type of American who lives in their own world, that unfortunately lots of voters are apparently sympathetic to. It’s probably seen as a victory against the climate change hoax or something along those lines.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't really accurate, small drones are enough to antagonize regional neighbors. They are far from being able to project influence, stabilize international trade, or even remotely protect a territory from an enemy that isn't concerned with civilian casualties.

That isn't really accurate, small drones are enough to antagonize regional neighbors. Such as a Russian strategic bomber base thousands of miles from the front?

If you mean Operation Spiderweb, the Ukrainian Osa drone only had a range of 5 miles/ 8km (one-way) and had to be launched from the roof of containers simultaneously transported unknowingly by Russian truckers and that was a covert operation that took 18 months to set up. So no that particular model couldn't attack even 10 miles away.

Ukraine has other long-range strike drones but haven't heard of more than a thousand miles range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spiderweb

https://sofrep.com/news/deepstrike-campaign-drone-attacks-ag...

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archive.is/fZ9CN > Michael England, a spokesman for the National Science Foundation, said the decision to dismantle the network, known as the Ocean Observatories Initiative, “aligns with N.S.F.’s wider strategy to have a nimbler approach to prioritizing support for evolving scientific priorities and emerging technologies as well as a deliberate approach to smart life cycle management within its portfolio of r…

> 1) it's not hard to do your own research. If you're here, I assume you know how. What an awful take. The point of news shouldn't be "assume I'm right and the readership takes my word for it". It should help the reader come to a conclusion, because it's news and not opinion . If you have to go do your own research not to dig deeper but because the article failed to even cover the basic arguments, it has utterly and…

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Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should we be spending tax money on? The only thing this admin seems interested in paying for is killing Iranians and paying off J6th protesters.

The tax money shouldn't have been collected in the first place. It should've stayed with the people.

Then stop using the roads and everything else that tax money paid for. If you keep using things that's been paid for using taxes the government will only feel more entitled to collect it.
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