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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#321

Post by hedora »

nozzlegear wrote: post #278
mememememememo wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local models for privacy. You want to go to the world's best hotel? You are gonna be on their CCTV. Staying at home is crappier but private. Unfortunately for the first time moores law isn't helping (e.g. give a poor person an old laptop and install linux they will be fine). They can do that and all good except no LLM.

> Staying at home is crappier but private. Doesn't make sense, my home is much more preferable to a hotel

With any luck, local models will be too (soon).

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#322

Post by hedora »

radlad wrote: post #285
magicseth wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! That's what I'm getting at. This protocol optionally allows you to sign with your private key, but you don't have to for the protocol to provide utility. It could just be enough to say "if you trust magicseth's binary and apple, then this was typed one letter at a time" There's nothing stopping folks from typing a message an LLM wrote one at a time, but the idea of increasing the human cost of sending messages i…

The problem is that it's not optional to end-users if sites enforce its use.

The other problem is that the device or company might decide not to attest for you.

For instance, the employee at Apple that decided to pull ICE Block from the store could decide that the "admissible in court" bit should be false if it looks like a police officer is in frame.

Similarly, the keyboard could decide your social credit score is too low, and just stop attesting. A court could order this behavior.

Or, you could fail mandatory age / id verification because your credit card expired, and then all the above + more could happen! Good luck getting through to credit card tech support at that point...

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#323

Post by camillomiller »

lm411 wrote: post #292
nikitaga wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

That is ridiculous. You imply that "an expensive llm service" is harmed by abuse, but, every other service is not? Because their websites are "static" and "near-zero marginal cost"? You have no clue what you are talking about.

Well he’s a simp

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#324

Post by technion »

XYen0n wrote: post #316
technion wrote: post #170

To prompt a discussion that's purely technical: I'm interested in how this was done. Specifically, Turnstile as far as I'm aware doesn't do anything specifically configurable or site specific. It works on sites that don't run React, and the cookie OpenAI-Sentinel-Turnstile-Token is not a CF cookie. Did OpenAI somehow do something on their own API that uses data from Turnstile?

Cloudflare should be able to determine whether a website uses React by analyzing data flowing through its CDN.

Whilst true, "validate the right state is loaded" would surely be something not done without developer input.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#325

Post by tommodev »

Ah, this explains chatgpt (and probably copilot) performance behind corporate firewalls such as zscaler.

Between the network latency and low end machines, there is an enormous lag between chatgpts response and being able to reply, especially for editing a canvas.

I've been sitting there for up to a minute plus waiting to be able to use the canvas controls or highlight text after an update.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#326

Post by DigiEggz »

sdsd wrote: post #296
holler wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ahh yes, fresh off reading "Html For Dummies" I made my first tripod.com site

For me it was making a petpage for my neopets using https://lissaexplains.com/ It's still up in all its glory.

This is great! The name reference also made me smile.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#327

Post by TiredOfLife »

lxgr wrote: post #14

It's absurd how unusable Cloudflare is making the web when using a browser or IP address they consider "suspicious". I've lately been drowning in captchas for the crime of using Firefox. All in the interest of "bot protection", of course.

[flagged]

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#328

Post by gzread »

razingeden wrote: post #253
nikitaga wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

It is direct financial damage if my servers not on an unmetered connection — after years of bills coming in around $3/mo I got a surprise >$800 bill on a site nobody on earth appears to care about besides AI scrapers. It hasn’t even been updated in years so hell if I know why it needs to be fetched constantly and aggressively, - but fuck every single one of these companies now whining about bots scraping and victimiz…

If you can identify the scraper you should have a valid legal case to recover damages.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#329

Post by eks391 »

doctaj wrote: post #35
onion2k wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because botnets spoof being Firefox? It's not really fair to blame Cloudflare it is. That's on the bots.

In what way would that not be fair? Their product giving false positives (unnecessary challenges for a normal browser humans commonly use) to real people is definitely their fault.

That sounds like it is working as intended, not a false positive. A false positive would mean it blocked you whereas a challenge means more information is needed. You aren't noticing all of the times it correctly decides you are human, only the times when it needs to "inconvenience" you for more information because you prioritize privacy, a key similarity with some bots.

I also like privacy. I use GrapheneOS. I compartmentalize my credit cards, emails, and phone numbers. I don't use Google products, and the list continues, but I don't complain about Cloudflare because it is painless and I understand the price I pay for privacy.

I also have home services accessible via my home website, running on my home server(s). I chose to have cloudflare to host my domain specifically for the easy bot blocking, and it blocks more than 2000 bots/day that otherwise would be trying to find vulnerabilities on my servers, which contain a lot of sensitive things. I've never had an issue personally accessing my services through cloudflare. Sometimes I have to do captchas to access my own things, and that's barely an inconvenience (I am aware the domain isn't necessary to access services, but it makes more sense for my setup and intents)

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#330

Post by littlestymaar »

lm411 wrote: post #315
PunchyHamster wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running

> Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running Wild eh. If it's not ai now, it's by default labelled "static content" and "near-zero marginal cost".

What's a database after all.
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