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AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

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Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#321

Post by dirkc »

mlsu wrote: post #286

Lots of talk here about writing being far superior to talking. This is entirely true. The thing you guys have to realize is that most people, like truly 80% of the population and probably some large subset of sw eng, hate reading and writing. People see reading as a chore. The last full book they read was in an elective in college and even then they skimmed the spark notes. They see writing as a stupid thing they hav…

> Lots of talk here about writing being far superior to talking. This is entirely true.

Writing and talking allows you to formulate and explore concepts in different ways. Writing forces you to be specific and put thoughts in a linear order. Talking allows you to explore less defined ideas in haphazard ways.

I recently had a meeting where understanding snapped in place right at the end of the meeting. Writing might have gotten us there too, but I'm not convinced that it would have been more efficient. The idea wasn't well defined to start with and we talked about lots of things randomly.

Now writing is needed to make sure that we capture what was discussed and agree on it.

Both has a place in collaboration with other people.

ps. not to make the argument for useless meetings where managers drag you along for body count, I've slept through my share of those. And would probably also sleep through the AI summary of it

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#322

Post by 0xEF »

VSerge wrote: post #192
0xEF wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree since I can also just not listen/pay any attention to what is vocally delivered in the meeting, which I find to be an abhorrent waste of my time in the first place. If the directive is in writing such as an email I (or the person who issued it) can't point to that and say "you did not read this" which shifts the onus entirely on the person receiving the directive. About a year ago, I nearly quit my…

Fair point in your case, but my experience across companies and industries is that people just don't read. It's true in any customer facing experience where tutorials etc are routinely unread and ignored, it's true for execs who are always short on time and want the exec summary in order no to read a whole memo (however misguided this may be in certain instances), it's true for seasoned professionals who prioritize a…

> people just don't read

You're right, and that tracks with my experience too, sad as it is to have to admit.

However, if you're not holding people accountable for not reading the directive/memo, then that's on you. When you have something in writing that you can point to and say "look, there it is, I provided you with the information, you chose to not acknowledge it," it's very damning to the person who ignored it.

Without getting into details about the time I nearly left my company, I can tell you that one of my greatest weapons was (and still is) being able to literally recall emails, SOPs, and SMS messages that had been ignored. It makes me a thorn in the side of lazy managers and legacy hires that turned out to be freeloaders in my industry.

The people at the bottom of any organization have a responsibility to hold the people at the top accountable, just as it works the other way around. This is extremely hard for those of us near the bottom of an organization to do, I know, but if we don't, we are giving permission for the problem to persist and make our work that much harder. We all know that managers and those above them will avoid doing as much work as possible at any given time, but willful ignorance is not admissible in court of law, so why should it be any different in the work place?

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#323

Post by Capricorn2481 »

joshstrange wrote: post #216

I block AI note takers from my meetings. Show up or read the notes taken afterwards (by a human, me). I’m not going to waste my time explaining the mistake your AI note taker made (misheard or misunderstood). I’m not going to deal with a “Why are we doing X when we previously said Y” which could either be the AI misunderstanding or a legit change of decision we made in the meeting (which you would know and would have…

We have multiple people across our projects using these and they all fucking suck. They mix things up all the time. Wrong todos, wrong people assigned to todos.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#324

Post by Talanes »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #279
dangus wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that people who talk like that aren’t management material. “I noped out of the management track” = “nobody was considering me for the management track”

IMO management positions are mostly lobbied for/created by try-hard social climbers, at least initially. "We're taking a lot of X work, maybe I should lead a team to deal with that?" "Y has so many reports, maybe I can form a subgroup to help with that?" Creating new positions for people who want to be more important than they are right now is the main mechanism by which private orgs expand. Doing this is considered…

>and a confused bottom layer of people who have to use this deliberately broken human telephone to communicate with their real ultimate bosses, the owners.

Which just feels like efficiency if you're the owner: less people reaching out to you with problems!

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#325

Post by burningChrome »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #236
PeterStuer wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are "low information density" because that is not the point of the meeting. Meetings are first and foremost about relationship management. You do not get to management and certainly not climb the management hierarchy if you do not at least implicitly feel this. The actual meeting topic, while it can be relevant, is secondary. You establish and reinforce the pecking order, sense allegiance and subversion, or, fee…

No, meetings are low information density because people are too lazy to plan an agenda and assign homework to a meeting beforehand, so that the meeting can focus on solutioning and actually delivering value. I noped out of management track to focus on being a top level IC because I could informally do the actually valuable "management" stuff in that role anyhow (documentation, planning, mentoring, client consultation…

>> No, meetings are low information density because people are too lazy to plan an agenda and assign homework to a meeting beforehand, so that the meeting can focus on solutioning and actually delivering value.

Honest question, how many people have this happening at where they work?

Most of the meetings where I work at now are on Teams, and are (for the most part) recorded so if people need to drop, or miss it because they can't make it for some reason. This also allows people to go back and watch at a faster speed or skip to presentations or important parts. The huge advantage is those meetings have a transcript so you can also read or scan the transcript instead.

I'm just wondering if in 2025 people are still having meaningless meetings.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#326

Post by [deleted] »

phil21 wrote: post #297
fnordpiglet wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homework before hand is an anti pattern IMO. It assumes people aren’t busy in the rest of their day and the meeting scheduler is inflating the toll of the meeting with a hidden prep tax. This is how people end up with 12 hour days. Bezos forbade pre-meeting homework at Amazon for this reason. He was having a hard time keeping up with everything and the meetings were basically people recriminating each other for not b…

All bezos did was explicitly make the homework a required part of calling a meeting. Correctly putting the majority of the prep work on the person calling the meeting to begin with. Then they simply moved the implied 20-30 minute prep time everyone should be doing anyways into the meeting block itself. If a meeting isn’t important enough to prep materials or an agenda for the meeting should be canceled. My theory is…

[deleted]

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#327

Post by ajmurmann »

bumby wrote: post #318
ajmurmann wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the biggest issue with homework beforehand is that a substantial portion of the attendees won't do the homework. Frequently it's the people who you most needed to have done the homework. Now you need to rehash it for them anyways and everyone who did the homework has their time wasted. That's one area where the Amazon Silent Read shines. The other way I found it very useful is that people leave comme…

I’ve admired meeting stewards who will adjourn the meeting if people aren’t prepared and reconvene it later. If that person has authority and is well respected, it only has to happen once or twice, but obviously it can’t be applied everywhere.

It's nice when that works and sets a good cultural signal. Unfortunately, the more important the meeting the harder this is.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#328

Post by dfxm12 »

mlsu wrote: post #286

Lots of talk here about writing being far superior to talking. This is entirely true. The thing you guys have to realize is that most people, like truly 80% of the population and probably some large subset of sw eng, hate reading and writing. People see reading as a chore. The last full book they read was in an elective in college and even then they skimmed the spark notes. They see writing as a stupid thing they hav…

FWIW, I see talking and listening as a chore, and I don't think many people are good at them. Each is better in different contexts and there is overlap, of course

If you give them something to read and force them to read it, they won’t get half of it because they’re just waiting till the chore is over when they get to the end.

This is not different from talking to someone who is too busy (or just doesn't want) to listen. Writing exists in a form that can always be referenced. There's no risk of playing telephone, no memory required, etc. It'll be waiting for when the person is ready to read it.

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