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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#321

Post by hasty_pudding »

alephnerd wrote: post #162
blasphemers wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you only have open engineering positions in the same few markets that every other tech company does and then you complain when you can't find enough engineers. Engineering talent doesn't only exist on the coasts, despite startup tech culture pretending it does.

We listed all these jobs remotely. There just aren't that many engineers who know OS Internals, eBPF, or XDP in Indiana compared to Tel Aviv or Bangalore.

I guarantee you theres tons of engineers with backgrounds in O.S./Networking that could learn those things very quickly.

I bet most people working in it learned on the job. The certainly dont teach every single specific detail of the entire tech industry in universities.

This is just gaslighting.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#322

Post by geodel »

aiisahik wrote: post #269
rayiner wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn’t understand the social burden of integrating an immigrant, and the resulting social conflict. Meanwhile, the prospective immigrant gets to stay in their homeland (most don’t really want to leave, money aside). If tax dollars are the issue, just tax the company.

What kinda immigrant are you talking about? The immigrant they are housing in NYC hotels who arrived with 3 kids from Venezuela? Or the software engineer with a US college degree paying $>50k / year in income taxes to state and federal government? Because you know that they are only restricting the latter type of immigrant.

> paying $>50k / year in income taxes to state and federal government?

Because anyone else employed for that role/ income would've not paid income tax or any other tax at all. Its to immigrants credit that they pay taxes when they could simply chose not to.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#323

Post by rcbdev »

jevoten wrote: post #310
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People on here don't seem to realize what an amazing asset it is that the US has a large pool of talented people that want to move there. I am from Europe and HN folks really like to look down on the European tech sector, but I would argue that the most important reason the US has a much stronger tech sector is because of the talent pool from around the world. Moving to Europe is a lot less interesting for people fro…

What an amazing asset, to not even have a country, just an economic zone where you get to compete with talent from all over the world. To slowly become a despised minority in what used to be your country, but the economy does so well! I am also from Europe, and I pray the US doesn't give us this "amazing asset".

Immigration will be politically encouraged either way for demographic reasons alone. Pensioners are the strongest voting block in most of Europe and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future. Someone needs to be productive for the pension system to keep on working.

As a European myself, I'd much rather have the comparably educated, motivated and talented immigration Switzerland and the USA get versus what the rest of the EU is currently getting.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#324

Post by Apocryphon »

rayiner wrote: post #282
aiisahik wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinda immigrant are you talking about? The immigrant they are housing in NYC hotels who arrived with 3 kids from Venezuela? Or the software engineer with a US college degree paying $>50k / year in income taxes to state and federal government? Because you know that they are only restricting the latter type of immigrant.

I think the immigrant with three kids from Venezuela is probably easier to integrate in a way than a skilled immigrant who was typically an elite back home. I think the latter folks are more likely to bring their culture with them and try to change America.

Software engineers are notoriously apolitical, even if that has been changing gradually. Plenty of technical "elites" remain separate, aloof from social life. Are foreign born doctors trying to "change America?"

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#325

Post by hasty_pudding »

remarkEon wrote: post #218
alephnerd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We listed all these jobs remotely. There just aren't that many engineers who know OS Internals, eBPF, or XDP in Indiana compared to Tel Aviv or Bangalore.

That is a policy problem. Opening up more immigration makes that problem worse, not better. It should be a question that everyone asks: why do US Universities not create an adequate supply of workers to meet the demand of the market? No one seems to care and the solution is always “just do more immigration”. Makes no sense.

The industry is so huge thats impossible to teach every aspect of the tech industry. The universities teach widely applicable curriculum.

Companies should train employees, simple as.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#326

Post by geodel »

Dopameaner wrote: post #233
geodel wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing could be that you come collecting US degrees is a WIN for US. Maybe degrees in Australia or your birth country weren't good enough for you (or you weren't good enough for them). Either way that US was able to have you for education and jobs for many years after that is win in my book.

I dont completely agree with you. Honestly, appears like an excuse to never change the USCIS, I have come peace with it, that it never will.

By all means they should change but I hope not to the interest of very vocal tech minority, who are already elite in their own counties, and to the detriment of other deserving groups.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#327

Post by hasty_pudding »

alephnerd wrote: post #211
fallingknife wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that instead of building a domestic talent pipeline for high demand skills we take the easy route and grab immigrants for it. So the talent pipeline never gets built, and then we continue to be dependent on immigration. This is obviously not your company's fault because they are not policy makers, but if companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" you would get it done. e.g. I am a…

> companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" Companies would collapse and fail, unless the government gave a massive corporate stimulus package (probably 4-5x the size of PPE). > none of the skills you need, but I could easily be trained It would take at least 1-2 years. At that point, an Israeli or Indian startup has taken market share and won. Welcome to cybersecurity and networking.

Nothing in tech takes that long to learn if you have someone with a decent background in the subject...

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#328

Post by bongoman37 »

j7ake wrote: post #75
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US citizen interested in improving the visa process who regularly interfaces with policymakers, propose an objective rubric that is better and I will get it in front of policymakers. Can't guarantee an outcome, will guarantee the effort. Patent quota is bullshit, but also "I know talent when I see it" (even though I do and how I hire) isn't going to fly. Sorting hats are hard, Goodhart's Law, etc. High level, yo…

Professor at top university like MIT should automatically come with green card.

[dead]

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#329

Post by filoleg »

jevoten wrote: post #310
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People on here don't seem to realize what an amazing asset it is that the US has a large pool of talented people that want to move there. I am from Europe and HN folks really like to look down on the European tech sector, but I would argue that the most important reason the US has a much stronger tech sector is because of the talent pool from around the world. Moving to Europe is a lot less interesting for people fro…

What an amazing asset, to not even have a country, just an economic zone where you get to compete with talent from all over the world. To slowly become a despised minority in what used to be your country, but the economy does so well! I am also from Europe, and I pray the US doesn't give us this "amazing asset".

> What an amazing asset, to not even have a country, just an economic zone where you get to compete with talent from all over the world.

Is this what europeans think the US is like? No country, just an economic zone? Mind if I ask how "just an economic zone" manages to produce cultural exports that most of the world has been predominantly consuming for decades? Is it the same "economic zone" that has some of the strongest national identities out there in the modern age? (not that it is an absolute positive or anything, but it would just be weird to claim that an "economic zone" has some national identity)

And competing with talent from all over the world, really? If you frame it that way, sure. I personally see it as getting to collaborate and work together with some of the best talent from all over the world, to accomplish things that often wouldn't be possible otherwise. This is the kind of a thing that makes the US a powerhouse, and not just from the economical perspective.

> To slowly become a despised minority in what used to be your country.

Ah, the european attitude towards immigration has finally shown its face. I can assure you that no american doing anything worthy with their life thinks so. Please tell me who that "despised minority" you are referring to is, and who "my" country used to belong to? Who specifically makes someone feel like a "despised minority" and how? Are you talking about Indian and Chinese software engineers immigrating to Bay Area, who then make rural american midwest farmers feel like a "despised minority"? I am legit confused how any of that tracks, so I assume you are talking about something else, so I am curious to hear you elaborate on that.

Note: I wasn't even born american (but I am white, in case you were trying to pull that "of course you disagree, because you are the minority being referenced" card), and I can assure you that I feel like less of a "despised minority" here than I do in my country of birth (where I grew up and had spent half of my life). And my country of birth was much much more homogenous in every single way compared to most large european countries, let alone the US.

> I am also from Europe, and I pray the US doesn't give us this "amazing asset".

If I were you, I wouldn't worry. Doesn't seem like Europe is going to manage to get there anytime soon, not even if they actually tried. Which they haven't yet, but judging by how well they manage to resolve any significant matters like that in Europe in general, I wouldn't place much hope on it going anywhere.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#330

Post by bufio »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #296
photochemsyn wrote: post #232

[flagged]

People on here don't seem to realize what an amazing asset it is that the US has a large pool of talented people that want to move there. I am from Europe and HN folks really like to look down on the European tech sector, but I would argue that the most important reason the US has a much stronger tech sector is because of the talent pool from around the world. Moving to Europe is a lot less interesting for people fro…

I can see how it is an asset to businessowners. I cannot see how it is an asset to, say, qualified engineers who consequently cannot find a job in their field.
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