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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

science.org

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#71

Post by dudul »

jmyeet wrote: post #49

I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary. The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way? Let's dispense of th…

> The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way?

Just because we needed and encouraged immigration 200 years ago doesn't mean we have a duty to never adjust policies based on current needs and realities. What was necessary in 1900 may not be desirable anymore. Surprisingly that's a fact that people usually have no problem applying to the 2nd ammendment, but is a big no no when it comes to immigration.

Edit to quote the specific part of the message I am reacting to.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#72

Post by vsskanth »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

>“You don’t have any accomplishments,” the lawyer told him. “You don’t have a patent, or even a product.” That scolding spurred Sanjay to make a list of what he needed to do to achieve his goal of staying permanently. He improved the technology his AI-based firm was developing, expanded its customer base, and filed for a U.S. patent, which was awarded earlier this year. In May those efforts paid off, allowing him to…

As a US citizen interested in improving the visa process who regularly interfaces with policymakers, propose an objective rubric that is better and I will get it in front of policymakers. Can't guarantee an outcome, will guarantee the effort. Patent quota is bullshit, but also "I know talent when I see it" (even though I do and how I hire) isn't going to fly. Sorting hats are hard, Goodhart's Law, etc. High level, yo…

I guess the rubric depends on whether policymakers view the employment based green card system as zero-sum or non-zero-sum.

My proposal for green cards:

zero-sum - points based system based on your current salary, taxes paid and the occupation shortage list OR straight up auction

non-zero-sum - let people apply for a green card as long as they've stayed in the country for X years without any criminal infractions, have earned above N*min-wage for all those years.

If you're asking about work visas, probably just ranking by location-adjusted-salary and handing them out should do the job.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#74

Post by jupp0r »

dougmwne wrote: post #39
addicted wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the last 30 odd years of increasing immigration has exerted tremendous downward pressure on US tech salaries. And countries in Europe that have not seen as much Tech immigration have seen huge boosts in Tech salaries. Comparable Europeans earn almost 1/3 - 1/2 what their American counterparts do today!

But really, it’s much easier to enter the EU. You have dozens of countries with their own rules so there are many more options. Plus immigration rules tend to be much easier than the US with its famously strict legal immigration with low caps. Indeed, this balance between supply and demand is exactly what keeps US tech salaries high. Our dynamic economy creates a lot of tech roles while our restrictive immigration li…

And yet there is very little tech immigration into Europe, comparatively. Must be the low salaries.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#75

Post by j7ake »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

>“You don’t have any accomplishments,” the lawyer told him. “You don’t have a patent, or even a product.” That scolding spurred Sanjay to make a list of what he needed to do to achieve his goal of staying permanently. He improved the technology his AI-based firm was developing, expanded its customer base, and filed for a U.S. patent, which was awarded earlier this year. In May those efforts paid off, allowing him to…

As a US citizen interested in improving the visa process who regularly interfaces with policymakers, propose an objective rubric that is better and I will get it in front of policymakers. Can't guarantee an outcome, will guarantee the effort. Patent quota is bullshit, but also "I know talent when I see it" (even though I do and how I hire) isn't going to fly. Sorting hats are hard, Goodhart's Law, etc. High level, yo…

Professor at top university like MIT should automatically come with green card.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#76

Post by pfisherman »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #19
dimmke wrote: post #9

[flagged]

A historic year of tech layoffs? Does that mean most tech layoffs ever? Or just that layoffs occurred when they didn’t in the last few years?

Well I assume that GP wasn’t around for the dot com bust or 2008.

“We are all ready to win, just as we are all born knowing only life”

- Han (Enter the Dragon)

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#77

Post by apwell23 »

danking00 wrote: post #63

Watching friends work through the decades long journey of citizenship, going to prestigious undergrad institutions, getting PhDs, publishing in journals, teaching part-time while working full time in industry, all just to get the right to stay in the country they’ve lived since they were 18 is fucking depressing. I doubt I’d qualify for EB-1 [1]. I’d have qualified for EB-2 at 28 when I attained five years of work ex…

> At 33 years old I’m still two years shy of the 10 year minimum for EB-2 [2]

not sure what your link has to do with age requirement that you mention. eb2 has no age minimum.

You also wrote bunch of other falsehoods like visa renewals requiring lottery, renewals don't count against yearly visa quota. Most of the stuff in your comment is not correct.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#78

Post by bsdpufferfish »

thenaturalist wrote: post #21
lgleason wrote: post #4

Expect further downward pressure on US tech salaries.

The economy is not a zero sum game. The US created literally all relevant consumer technology in the last 30 or so years and demand for tech talent has exploded ever since. Having a competitve sector/ economy which regularly pushes the edge of innovation and hence expands demand (both on sell and supply side) is actually what keeps salaries up. This logic is as deeply flawed as often as it comes up.

The myth is that these measures must be taken because of "shortages of workers" when there are plenty of US citizens in STEM who are underemployed.

This narrative is purely a lobbying effort.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#79

Post by sokoloff »

jmyeet wrote: post #52
pc86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't this just dramatically shrink the number of initial work visas given out? Because you'll have to assume each one is now just a green card with extra steps.

Why do we need a quota for qualified people getting work visas (or green cards) at all? We don't.

If the qualifications are for a field that has 95 workers for every 100 jobs, come on in. If it’s for a field that already has 105 workers for every 100 jobs, I can see a lot of reasons ($$$) why current residents would want to see their potential competitors stifled or limited in number.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#80

Post by aiisahik »

I'm an Australian citizen who has lived in the US for over 20 years, gotten degrees from Yale and Berkeley. I've worked as a software engineer for over 10 years and am currently a cofounder.

I'm so put off by the immigration process in the US that I have decided to leave the US permanently. Don't worry - i still work for the same US based company remotely from a more cost effective nation. I just don't pay your taxes anymore.

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