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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#321

Post by [deleted] »

oceanplexian wrote: post #124
hejalajsbsb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the company and I would bet my life’s savings that if a discrepancy exists at Google, it is not intentional. I have many American friends, friends on TN visas, and friends on H1Bs and we are transparent about our pay (to protect each other from poor business practices). Being involved in the process there are so many legal barriers and red tape and people take it all seriously. H1B holders will get paid…

I worked at FAANG and knew more than one Indian on H1B. They weren't getting paid "the same but slightly less". They were getting like 50k TC on a team where the rest of the team was making 200+.

[deleted]

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#322

Post by vacuity »

Zetice wrote: post #275
jpalawaga wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise is flawed. If I create a new nation and my nations social contact is one norm: no outsiders, then you can't simply be a national by agreeing to the contract. In practice, nations prioritize their own citizens, in the same way you will prioritize your family. Do you abandon taking care of your family because it would be "more fair," to take care of someone on the other side of the planet? Your countrymen…

The problem you’re ignoring is that there is not a 1:1 correlation between citizenship and people who agree to the social contract. Everyone who gives up freedom to the state is entering into a social contract with that state, citizenship or no. Once those people enter into that contract, they deserve all of the rights and services the contract provides. By tying the contract to citizenship, you provide a way for rac…

At the same time, if a surplus of noncitizens enter and suddenly the country's ability to provide for all of its people is strained, wouldn't that be a grave disservice to the citizens? What would be the difference between a citizen and a noncitizen then? Not that a country like the US is reasonably providing for a large portion of the populace anyways, so I suppose that's a moot point right now.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#323

Post by spaceprison »

Zetice wrote: post #231
dudul wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People immigrated there because it was needed at the time. What was good centuries ago may not apply today. Yes permanent residents in the US/Iceland/Australia/Spain/whatever should get priority over temporary visa holders in their respective country. This is the whole point of countries.

No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an importan…

If the contract is this simple then is it surprising that existing control givers (aka permanent residents) may have a sense that as long as they're still 'giving' they should still be 'getting' or at least have a place in line to 'get' ahead of a prospective 'giver' (h1b).

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#324

Post by vacuity »

dixie_land wrote: post #214
dudul wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is in America.

And in America we earn our keep. Life is not fair, if someone's willing to work for less, you simply show up and do a better job and demand a better salary. Entitlement is not America, it's communism

Life isn't fair, but we could do a lot better than imposing even more unfairness. Sexual harrassment and sexism, LGBT discrimination, racism, nepotism, etc. We're not quite living in a meritocracy.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#325

Post by deodar »

BlackJeffBezos wrote: post #280
vinay_ys wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signed up. H1B, L1 etc visa schemes make you indentured to the system. The longer you stay and invest in your home and social life (which as a human you have to, otherwise you become a mindless drone), the more you are indentured to the system. Indenture is built into the visa contract – you cannot qui…

[flagged]

Unfortunately that's not true. It is not easy even for strong programmers to polish up on Leetcode, find a new job, get a written job offer, have the new employer to file for an H1B transfer, and get an acknowledgement from USCIS all within the 60 day window. The 2021-2022 job market was an aberration where anyone with a pulse could find a programming job within a few weeks.

Even in the best case, as the 60 day deadline gets closer you also have to plan for the contingency and start planning how to uproot your life. Pack your belongings, sell your car, plan to take the kids out of school for at least the current school year. Even if you get the H1B approval a few days after you return to your home country, visa stamping can take months so you have to plan for an extended absence and the good possibility that you won't be able to return.

Sure we can say that this is exactly what H1B workers signed up for when they came to the US and it is true that no one goes into this blind. However it is not a pleasant situation to be in, and the fear of facing this, especially in the kind of job market we saw in 2023, takes its toll on families.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#326

Post by Zetice »

vacuity wrote: post #322
Zetice wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem you’re ignoring is that there is not a 1:1 correlation between citizenship and people who agree to the social contract. Everyone who gives up freedom to the state is entering into a social contract with that state, citizenship or no. Once those people enter into that contract, they deserve all of the rights and services the contract provides. By tying the contract to citizenship, you provide a way for rac…

At the same time, if a surplus of noncitizens enter and suddenly the country's ability to provide for all of its people is strained, wouldn't that be a grave disservice to the citizens? What would be the difference between a citizen and a noncitizen then? Not that a country like the US is reasonably providing for a large portion of the populace anyways, so I suppose that's a moot point right now.

No, as these people who are part of the influx, once accepting the social contract, are no better or worse than anyone else who has agreed to the social contract, citizen or no.

Besides, all evidence suggests immigrants benefit a society substantially more than they harm it. In the US for example, noncitizens consume significantly fewer national resources while still paying the full amount of taxes expected of citizens.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#328

Post by ajmurmann »

rcme wrote: post #299
ajmurmann wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. And I want to work with the brightest people from all over the world. I guess we are at an impasse and are best off leaving subjective preferences out...

Do you want to work with them even if that means a lower salary? Surely, since you’re among the “brightest in the world” you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor.

> since you’re among the “brightest in the world”

I'm certainly not one of them, but love working with bright people.

> you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor.

The pie isn't fixed. I believe it will grow and there will be more for everyone if we allow everyone to thrive. New people create demand and maybe reverb start some new companies. Further, the labor could also happen entirely in another country which would be much worse for US workers.

IMO the biggest issue with H1B is that it restricts worker choice and thus creates a somewhat captive class of workers who can be paid less. The best way to solve this is to reduce constraints on H1B holders

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#329

Post by onetimeusename »

greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

My ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citizenship but they do all the work. It's not a healthy way to view this country or their coworkers. They take the "nation of immigrants" line too far and act as if their American coworkers are basically their inferiors but who were lucky enough to happen to have citizenship. I always tried to provide a different perspective to no avail.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#330

Post by reacharavindh »

pokstad wrote: post #267
reacharavindh wrote: post #8

If only there were labor protection laws that prevent companies from firing and hiring at the same time(for same/similar roles) in the US. This is madness.

Then how would a company replace low performers?

I don’t think the companies in question let people go based on performance or any other logical criteria. They saw an opportunity to unload and they did.

I can speak based on Netherlands where I work now. If an employee is performing below expectations, then a conversation needs to be had(documented), given a chance to improve or change course. If after an extended period of attempt, the decision to let that employee go still holds, then they may.

However, the above reasoning cannot be made for several employees at once (like the layoffs that occurred).

To do an American style layoff, the government will insist on the company to document the reasons why, and in most cases, take away the choice for the company to choose which employee they can let go. Which makes it very unattractive. So, if a company wants to let go of several people at once, they typically offer good severance packages and request the employees to quit.

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