BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea • Hacker News Board

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#321

Post by growse » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #193

Good news is that all bmw's come with all the options just turned off via software.. So be smart guys, this is called hacker news for a reason... Just buy bare metal bmw and turn all luxury options on... (and BMW is traditionally very dumb on security)...

Except.... This isn't true.

I can't just "turn on" adaptive headlights because the vehicle doesn't have the necessary camera to scan the road for oncoming cars installed.

I can't just "turn on" adaptive cruise control, because my vehicle doesn't have the necessary front radar installed.

I can't just "turn on" the HUD, because my vehicle doesn't have the necessary dash components physically installed.

The number of different hardware permutations of most modern cars is eye-watering. For most options, if you didn't get it installed from the factory, you're looking at an expense retrofit.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#322

Post by naasking » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #318

rand49an wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the manufacturer has already paid to include that hardware into the product.

But, as I say, that could work out cheaper for them due to simplified manufacturing. That's why other manufacturers usually do it.

Yes, it is cheaper due to economies of scale to include the hardware in all models, and the fact that they're selling it at all without enabling the feature means there's already a profit margin there.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#323

Post by juve1996 » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #270

panick21_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are rapidly moving towards Feudalism. I hate when people say that. This has literally nothing to do with the historic institution of feudalism. Its is the opposite of actually educating people on actual feudalism. Its just using historical terms that people call not to be 'bad' so you don't actually have to explain the problem. We are literally talking about people who can buy a BMW. Did BMW promise them heated…

If it works for BMW, why wouldn't it work for Ford, Toyota and GM? The financial incentive will cause these user-hostile subscriptions to spread, and probably to more than just heated seats, if/when the model is proven. The analogy to feudalism might be stretched in the literal sense, but most people use the term as a substitute for "you own nothing and are subject to the whims of the owner". And there's a lot of tru…

Life has been good in the west for a long, long time. But looking at how my great-grandfather lived (through the depression), and his point of view is massively different.

Economically things look rather grim. Goods will get more and more expensive. People will have less money to spend on frivolous items. Before they'd ignore minor expenses, now they will look for the best possible deals.

Subscriptions only work when people don't pay attention. BMW will be OK because it's just a rich person's toy anyway. I don't see it working for mass-market cars.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#324

Post by vkou » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

lancesells wrote: post #306

wil421 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BMW tires are about $200 more expensive then the Tesla. In 5-7 years the Tesla would be drastically less in maintenance but in years 4-5 the BMW could be less if you need to throw an extra set on the Tesla. Not sure I’d want a 550i outside of an extended warranty. However, newer BMW v8 twin turbos are a LOT more reliable than the first couple generations.

Tesla economics are much better because by 2021 you'll be able to use it as a Robotaxi in the Tesla network. You'll keep 70% of the revenue while you're just sitting at home.

When FSD launches in 2021, you'll also be able to work your tech job while you're driving to work, earning you extra money if you're hourly, or extra time if you're salaried.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#325

Post by elzbardico » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

2143 wrote: post #31

I seriously hope this doesn't catch on. For cars with internal combustion engines, the company tends to get constant income via service thanks oil filters, other filters, and a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be replaced (assuming people take it to authorised service centers, which I assume most people do when the car is relatively new). With the transition to EV, those avenues dry up because EVs need lesser maint…

Other than oil and filters, which you don't need to buy from the manufacturer, most new cars don't need much engine maintanance. On the other side, suspension, brakes and tires are much more subject to wear and the need of replacement, and in a heavier car, there's a big chance that you'll need even more frequent maintainance of such itens.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#326

Post by zasdffaa » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

seiferteric wrote: post #308

dsr_ wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementing it the way it used to be, with a proprietary radio remote, does not require any communications infrastructure support. 99.9% of the time this feature is used to start the car when the driver is within 50 feet. There's no need for it to be relayed through the Internet.

This is something that bothers me as well, implementation decisions are what drives this a lot. I have a nest thermostat and it seems like the app decides to log me out randomly every once in a while and I have to go through the whole login/2fa process, sometimes in the middle of the night when trying to adjust the temp! There is no need for internet connected thermostat most of the time, I would much prefer Bluetoot…

Why have such a thing ad why tolerate it - I mean get rid of it or tell whoever owns it now to fix it. What is the value of these things?

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#327

Post by Reubachi » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

deng wrote: post #60

xupybd wrote: post #2

I hope people promptly come up with ways to enable these features for free. This is nothing short of criminal. To charge for a feature that is physically in the car. Yes you can do that with a SASS product but no you cannot for a physical product.

> I hope people promptly come up with ways to enable these features for free. This is nothing short of criminal. To charge for a feature that is physically in the car. This is very common. It is often cheaper to have a single SKU and enable/disable features via software than to create a separate one. I don't see what could be criminal about that.

It is common in industry that use SAAS, modular systems, etc. Not with purely physical goods.

I'm surprised practices like these have legal legs. No reasonable finance statement/legal statement will stand behind a $3.5k line item under manufacturing for a robot to flip a switch to enable a software setting on already installed hardware.

Example w/ non-real numbers: BMW x5 with front facing radar, dealer enabled, cost of goods sold = $31,000. MSRP = $60k.

BMW x5 with front facing radar installed, dealer disabled, cogs =$31,000.MSRP= $56.5k.

This is not healthy for a company to rely on.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#328

Post by naasking » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #226

naasking wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No - you can either pay for the option one-time up front (the article says), or you can pay a subscription. You don't pay for the option up-front and also pay the subscription. That's not what he's saying. He's saying that BMW has already sold the car at a profit with the heating elements built-in , and then are trying to make more profit off of a software patch to enable a feature you technically already own. If A…

> He's saying that BMW has already sold the car at a profit How do you know how BMW structures profit and costs? I would guess their profit is based on some people choosing to enable the future. > If Apple offered you a $1000 iPhone with a camera app installed, and then offered you the same iPhone for $800 but which will not let any camera apps be installed unless you pay them $18/month, does that seem fine to you? Y…

> I would guess their profit is based on some people choosing to enable the future.

They would not risk breaking even or losing money if people opted out more than expected. The base model with the feature disabled must be profitable on its own. It's just basic business.

> More choices for the consumer.

It's a false choice. Creating the illusion of choice is not progress. If I stood in front of your front door with a gun in hand and asked you to either pay a small fee every time you leave, or a large one-time fee to leave whenever you want, well, before I arrived you only had one choice and now you have two. Are you better off?

> What's the issue?

Capitalism generally drives progress due to competition, but it should be heavily criticised whenever it stunts progress. Simple as that.

Providing more features at the same or lower cost due to economies of scale is great progress. Artificially disabling those features with software to try and squeeze out more profit is not progress. No doubt they will also go after anyone who tries to bypass this software lock.

This is the same logic behind printer manufacturers trying to lock out third party cartridges and refilling. It's wasteful, anticompetitive and regressive, not progressive.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#329

Post by WXLCKNO » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #198

chewz wrote: post #193

Good news is that all bmw's come with all the options just turned off via software.. So be smart guys, this is called hacker news for a reason... Just buy bare metal bmw and turn all luxury options on... (and BMW is traditionally very dumb on security)...

Hackers are rejoicing at this subscription movement because now they can get a fully loaded BMW for the price of a base model.

Downloading these Tartufo merino leather seats for free.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#330

Post by mmmpop » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

coffeeblack wrote: post #194

mmmpop wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when I die? Can I sell my Steam library? HN frowns upon trolling.

Why is that “trolling”? Seems like a fair question.

A quick check with Uncle Google tells me that games are non-transferable as they are bound to your account. So I suppose if in your legal will you wanted to designate someone as a benefactor (lol) then that's your prerogative.

That said, if you're asking that kind of question, I just assume you're trolling but then I thought about it and realized it was an earnest inquiry.