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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#321

Post by calvinmorrison »

heavyset_go wrote: post #196
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

I spend 150$+ per month on AC and heat because of the pandemic. I spent ~30$ in gas a month commuting. I could even walk if my bike didn't work.

Personally I like the free AC.

Once you optimize your job to be close to your home, many of the benefits of wfh disappear.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#322

Post by CydeWeys »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #110
hwbehrens wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm obviously an outlier, but I live an 8 minute (peaceful) bike ride from work. I hate commuting, so I optimized for that for this job, and working from home last year was absolutely a net negative for me. Distracting kids, poor work-life balance, more expensive (AC, food, water, etc). I think the lesson here is, some companies can be remote-first, some companies can be in-person, and different employees will prefer…

I don't understand how so many people in this thread are saying they spend more on food while working from home. How is this possible? Does it vary by country? In Australia at least it is orders of magnitude less expensive to prepare food at home purchased from a supermarket than it is to buy food whilst out an about. Or are these people working for companies that provide food or something. I just don't get it.

> I don't understand how so many people in this thread are saying they spend more on food while working from home. How is this possible?

It's simple. I work at Google, but this answer works for many other companies as well. Prior to COVID I would eat an average of 13 meals per week (and snacks) at the office. Now that I'm eating all of those at home, my grocery bills have shot up.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#323

Post by Mountain_Skies »

decremental wrote: post #179
pseudalopex wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't call it religion if they wanted a conversation.

On the contrary, calling it out for what it is is the conversation that needs to be had. Frankly, I think he falls short of identifying the new secular religion that has taken over western civilization. You can identify its followers by the language they use. Anti-Maskers, Science Deniers, Conspiracy Theorists. All new-speak for what was once referred to as heretics. The religious drive is an instinct that humans nev…

A new religion with ever shifting rules. What was dogma one day can be blasphemy the next. Older religions were subject to change but usually slowly over generations, giving everyone time to adapt to the new revelation. But this secular religion changes constantly and woe to those who aren't current on the latest changes.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#324

Post by teeray »

sam0x17 wrote: post #170

Curious to see how many quit over this. A lot in the tech industry (myself included) seem completely done with not working from home, especially when there is no excuse for working in-person. Tech offices for pure-software projects have also become morally indefensible from the perspective of resource consumption and climate change. That said it's true that Apple does do some R&D that requires an in-person presence,…

I feel like remote will be a powerful recruitment perk in the coming months. “We can pay you exactly what you’re making at $MEATSPACE, but we can give you full time remote.”

The costs for the company making the offer have already been realized over the past year. There’s high demand for that from candidates, and those companies can keep facilities overhead down while staffing up.

Once the talent poaching begins in earnest, that’s when I bet that we’ll see some of this get walked back.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#325

Post by chadlavi »

prepend wrote: post #49

I’d rather just go in five days, although I definitely prefer completely remote forever. For me, it’s about context switching and having a work/non-work routine. Having to wake up at different times, do meals differently, schedule childcare differently through the week is actually harder than just doing the same thing all five days.

I think this is what they're banking on. They're _requiring_ 3 days but are hoping you'll realize it's easier to just give in and come to the office all 5 days.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#326

Post by bootlooped »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I agree on everything except two points:

1) Home is not without distractions, but I think the office had more; it mostly came down to ambient noise and people always moving around in my field of view. Being alone I can focus more. Everybody is different. If you find the office better for focus (for you) I don't debate that.

2) I hate over-the-shoulder code reviews. I don't want me and my coworker's faces to be kissing distance while we both squint at a 14" laptop. I'll take a Zoom call screen sharing on my 34" ultrawide any day.

I absolutely think being there in person is a competitive advantage, especially in the ladder-climbing aspect. We don't work in a purely egalitarian system. There is a game, and you can play it or not play it, but all other things equal you'll get more monetary rewards if you play it.

And my non-Machiavellian viewpoint on it is that I like my coworkers and I think seeing them and conversing with them in person few times a week is good for my mental health. I get more face to face social interaction when I work at least part of the week in the office.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#327

Post by xtracto »

sam0x17 wrote: post #170

Curious to see how many quit over this. A lot in the tech industry (myself included) seem completely done with not working from home, especially when there is no excuse for working in-person. Tech offices for pure-software projects have also become morally indefensible from the perspective of resource consumption and climate change. That said it's true that Apple does do some R&D that requires an in-person presence,…

In 2018/2019 discussions about open offices vs private spaces were all the rage. Bean counters (C*Os) were fast to position open offices as great promoters of interactions and teamwork.

Fast forward 2 years and thankfully that conversation has moved to WFH vs office work.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#328

Post by InvertedRhodium »

kelnos wrote: post #50
swader999 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So can vaccinated people.

Sure, but the probability of that happening is much, much lower, to the point of it being not worth protecting against, for the most part.

HIV has a transmission rate below 2% - I'd still suggest wearing a condom though.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#329

Post by mattferderer »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #103
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person I’m sure I’m not the only person who has the exact opposite experience with this. I can’t think and get mentally blocked when I have someone peering over my shoulder or I’m staring at their screen. I find this kind of collaboration so much easier if I’m in the comfort of my own desktop setup, sharing the screen over Te…

Try VS Code &/or Visual Studio Live Share or a similar feature on another editor.

In my opinion it's a much better programming experience than having your laptop and sitting next to someone so that you can each look over at each other's screen.

Also by mid afternoon you might not want to sit physically that close to someone.

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