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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#321

Post by gruez »

panpanna wrote: post #145
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov? That situation does not exist. Chinese law basically means that any data held in China can be accessed by the government at any time.

Yeah, buy according to US law American companies must comply with government requests even if the data is stored abroad. So basically, why should anyone trust a US company if US thinks tiktok giving data to their government is a problem?

They don't, hence why EU has data residency requirements, and American companies set up firewalled entities to comply (eg. Azure Germany).

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#322

Post by curiousllama »

nouveaux wrote: post #314
curiousllama wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't digital privacy; it's a fair bit more complex than that. Tech lenses aren't a great way to view geopolitics. The US' international economic dominance is predicated on a (1) pronounced lead in certain industries and (2) a simply massive economy, which combine to (3) let the US set the rules of international "fair play." The US is where you find the thing you want to buy, and the people you want to se…

China is already setting their own rules of "fair play". This is not just protecting the American way but protecting the way of Western Democracy. https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-china-feud-timeline-dary...

I wouldn't be a hyperbolic as that, but you're not wrong. It's about protecting policies and norms that manifest western democratic values on the global stage.

In one way, it's existential: the march of authoritarianism is undoubtedly accelerated by nation-states manipulating social media.

But in most others, I wouldn't get too worked up: it's more about mundane garbage ("preserving the spirit of financial disclosure processes in the context of international capital market access") - nerd sh*t.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#323

Post by [deleted] »

_8j50 wrote: post #205
sumedh wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If americans want to be spied on by China in exchange for being able to use tiktok it's their right Do you also think you have a right to not wear a mask during a pandemic or not wear a seatbelt while driving?

No sir, that isn't speech and those are regulated activities of commerce and transportation. This is simple exchange of unprivileged information between an individual and an organization (foreign or domestic).

[deleted]

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#325

Post by Firebrand »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #76
ehsankia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I think TikTok is a cesspool Is that referring to the content or the company itself? I don't see how it's any more of a cesspool than any other social platform. Twitter? Facebook? Reddit? Every sufficiently large platform is filled with a very wide range of content, from great to awful. As a company, I do agree they have shady practices, but again, don't most other social media apps such as Facebook and the g…

> I don't see how it's any more of a cesspool than any other social platform. It actually is uniquely bad. A disproportionate amount of the content consists of the sexualization of underage girls. The way the thing is set up, there is some kind of audio, someone does a thing (usually a dance), and then other people try to do the same thing to the same sound. The audio is generally nonsense. One of the currently popul…

TikTok has been skating by the issue of sexualizing young girls because it’s operated by a foreign company. Once an American company like Microsoft owns it...I think the nation will have another moral panic leading to protections that will take away what made TikTok popular in the first place.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#326

Post by anthk »

true_religion wrote: post #286
anthk wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>. If the USA achieved global dominance, there would be no China. And that day they would be no US West and East coast... populated. You know what I mean. Also, China owns the US economy by buying its debt. Try to crash down China, and look how the Dow Jones gets more sunk than the Marianas.

Debt is serviced under a contract. The worst a lender can do is not give any future debt. Now of course in the case of nation states, agreements are changeable by military and economic force, but in effect you would have to do more than simply hold debt to affect another counties economy.

China is the world's factory/warehouse today. Even more on a R&D world. Any war with China from the US would be shooting their feet themselves with a bazooka.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#327

Post by billfruit »

curiousllama wrote: post #264
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

The problem isn't digital privacy; it's a fair bit more complex than that. Tech lenses aren't a great way to view geopolitics. The US' international economic dominance is predicated on a (1) pronounced lead in certain industries and (2) a simply massive economy, which combine to (3) let the US set the rules of international "fair play." The US is where you find the thing you want to buy, and the people you want to se…

If that is so then the whole discourse borders on the US government deceiving the American people by stating that TikTok is some data security threat.. whereas real reasons seems to be geo-politics..

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#329

Post by parliament32 »

mcv wrote: post #301
crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

Exactly. As far as I'm aware, TikTok is pretty much malware, meant to collect every single possible piece of information it can get access to on your phone, so I would recommend everybody to avoid it, and I'm not opposed to a ban at all. What matters is the way it's banned. And why. And the current process feels every bit as wrong as TikTok itself. What the US needs is proper data protection laws. And then it should…

TikTok collects less data then Facebook, Linkedin, Google, and thousands of other apps in the app store. "It collects so much info" is pure FUD.. the app doesn't even request the Location permission FFS.

Please provide a source.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#330

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

_8j50 wrote: post #278
codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for a moment and say that you might be underplaying the power of TikTok. It's not just that China has peoples' dance videos. The app has complete adoption by the teenage generation. When many high-profile hacks begin with simple social engineering, all it takes is blackmail attempts on the sons and daughters of diplomats and CEOs threatening to reveal/promote to friends either priva…

I don't care how justified your fears are. I also have fears about facebook being abused by republicans and russia, and google being abused by democrats but I am not calling for their ban and I am not calling for telegram's ban either. You need to educate your fellow citizens or pressure appstore owners (google and apple) to delist tiktok. That's how a free nation functions, through dialogue not paranoia and treating…

> Don't sacrifice my liberty to alleviate your fears.

Don't be melodramatic. You sacrifice your liberty for the sake of security all the time, and it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

> You need to educate your fellow citizens or pressure appstore owners (google and apple) to delist tiktok.

This is an unconvincing solution because of the subversive nature of the power of TikTok. We already see that people brush this off as "not my problem. I don't care if China has my data".

You don't have to trust domestic parties to agree that there is a legitimate security threat from Chinese controlled TikTok which must be addressed.

> If you claim this is just and lawful, apply it equally to all other foreign and domestic apps that can be abused similar to tiktok both by domestic and foreign forces.

This is ostensibly the point of the "clean network". Whether or not that particular solution is adequate or even appropriate remains to be seen, but it certainly seems aimed at exactly that problem.

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