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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#251

Post by yogthos »

squarefoot wrote: post #192
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during pro…

Exactly, I'd be much more concerned about my personal data going to a government that has agency over me than the one that doesn't. The only time I'd have to worry about Chinese government having my data would be if I went to China. On the other hand, as a US citizen I could be dragged into an unmarked van by DHS goons any time based on the data US government collects on me.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#252

Post by buran77 »

swebs wrote: post #246
buran77 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Plans for global dominance" can mean more than just achieving it. One can also plan to maintain it or grow it. Perhaps it's just semantics but an important distinction. In this particular case China's plan to achieve global dominance is in stark opposition to the US's plan to maintain global dominance.

>the US's plan to maintain global dominance I really don't know what you're trying to say. If the USA achieved global dominance, there would be no China. There would only be the USA. Globally. Obviously, that's not the case.

> If the USA achieved global dominance, there would be no China. There would only be the USA

That's really not what those words mean. "Dominance" is the fact or state of being dominant, not the state of being the only one in existence. So what I said is that the US dominates the world (geo-political, economic, military, etc.).

Let's put it in more simple terms. If Mike Tyson dominated a boxing match it really doesn't mean he was prancing around alone in the ring. Just that if anyone contested that dominance he'd punch them harder. And if that didn't work he'd bite of their ear. Which is a far more appropriate analogy than it would first seem.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#253

Post by tomxor »

> the president's order appeared rushed and did not include carveouts or exceptions for TikTok to maintain any legal representation, which the company plans to argue is a violation of due process rights. [...] Typically, if the federal government launches an investigation, it will inform the company with a subpoena or some other kind of notice [...] no such outreach from the White House requesting evidence took place before Thursday's executive order. TikTok lawyers view that as shortcutting standard procedure.

These are pretty ironic allegations considering It's all because they are Chinese owned.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#254

Post by anonymousab »

La1n wrote: post #243
sumedh wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that enforce China to play by the rules?

Cause if they don't you can punish them according to the law. That's how laws work.

Which is what the US seems to be attempting to do. The president does, under the law, have fairly broad powers when it comes to foreign nations.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#255

Post by gpanders »

La1n wrote: post #243
sumedh wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that enforce China to play by the rules?

Cause if they don't you can punish them according to the law. That's how laws work.

This already exists in the form of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and China already flouts those rules. Your plan has been tried and does not work.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#256

Post by mmrezaie »

bzb4 wrote: post #222
endogui wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rhetoric about US values has been empty since Guantanamo Bay started housing "foreign militants". Europe seems to be the only place in the West where a commitment to human rights is sincere.

There’s no right to free speech in Europe, since for example many countries have laws against blasphemy.

Like where in Europe?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#257

Post by throwaway0a5e »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #245
squarefoot wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during pro…

You make it sound like you are forced to download the app at gunpoint.

In order to exist as functional part of modern society you pretty much have to be on at least a couple apps that exfiltrate all your data and metadata. Sure you can DIY everything but that comes with a huge time cost that most simply cannot afford.

The point out preferring one's data in the hands of a regime that doesn't have jurisdiction to send jack booted thugs to kick in one's door still stands.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#258

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

logicchains wrote: post #103
kittiepryde wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'If americans want to be spied on by China in exchange for being able to use tiktok it's their right' I think you're argument breaks down here. I don't think that handimf over information to a foreign government is a right. I was unable to Google for a definitive answer, but maybe a more knowledgeable person could chime in. The US already has export restrictions on knowledge ( for example encryption ) to foreign gove…

>The US already has export restrictions on knowledge ( for example encryption ) to foreign governments. And normally people on this site deride such things as ridiculous (and actively worked around bans on exporting encryption), but when they find out Big Bad China might see their dance videos and lip synching suddenly they're happy to crush the free exchange of information.

I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for a moment and say that you might be underplaying the power of TikTok.

It's not just that China has peoples' dance videos.

The app has complete adoption by the teenage generation. When many high-profile hacks begin with simple social engineering, all it takes is blackmail attempts on the sons and daughters of diplomats and CEOs threatening to reveal/promote to friends either private or falsified(deep fake?) data/videos to get at least some percentage of compliance.

Of course we should protect encryption and be smart and diligent when protecting our liberties, but I'm scared of TikTok, and I don't think that fear is unjustified.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#260

Post by falcolas »

yogthos wrote: post #251
squarefoot wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during pro…

Exactly, I'd be much more concerned about my personal data going to a government that has agency over me than the one that doesn't. The only time I'd have to worry about Chinese government having my data would be if I went to China. On the other hand, as a US citizen I could be dragged into an unmarked van by DHS goons any time based on the data US government collects on me.

In a globalized world, it’s a mistake to assume that China (or any foreign power, for that matter) has no agency over or interest in you. Especially if you are, for example, someone with even a mediocrum of power or access that they want (for example, if you’re a system administrator for a company whose secrets they want).

If they have enough leverage over you (or access through you to your secure systems), they will use it.

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