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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#321

Post by pcroh »

andy_ppp wrote: post #163
duxup wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

What makes you think making up charges and constantly threatening to destroy you are not extremely stressful. He has a family too that he's been unable to see properly for a long while. Is his only current crime skipping bail on charges he believed were fake? Clearly, facing deportation to the US is problematic for a number of reasons, mostly that it's impossible for even Snowden to get a fair trial there, let alone…

Skipping bail on charges he believe were fake is a crime, yes. If we was so sure of the charges being fake then he should have let them judge him.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#322

Post by nemo »

k1m wrote: post #303
zaarn wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the years before he spent time in an embassy on his own free will, the solitary confinement is new.

Melzer: "Mr. Assange was about as free to leave as someone sitting on a rubber boat in a shark pool." In 2016 another group of UN experts found his situation to be "arbitrary detention": > In its official Opinion, the Working Group considered that Mr. Assange had been subjected to different forms of deprivation of liberty: initial detention in Wandsworth Prison in London, followed by house arrest and then confinement…

He fled justice to hide in an embassy. He was fully free to leave, and should have faced justice from the start. Fugitives from justice do not enjoy pleasant conditions - that's not a strike against liberty, but a necessary condition of the rule of law.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#323

Post by mariorossi666 »

dependenttypes wrote: post #316
mariorossi666 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He did not rape anyone nor did anyone accused him of rape That's false. > He is being accused of a very specific thing which at best might be classified as sexual misconduct. it's rape in Sweden. I don't know why you split hairs on this simple fact.

I will quote Stallman on that: "I think it is morally absurd to define “rape” in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in" What he did does not fall within the definition of rape, please do not accuse him of doing a much worse thing than he did.

Stallman was saying the exact opposite of what you believe he said.

He was arguing that rape is rape, even if in different states they have different laws.

If you rape a girl the fact that in some country she is of legal age and in others she's not, it doesn't change the fact.

It is rape, she said no, he forced her, it is rape.

Please accept it, because it's what happened.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#324

Post by scarejunba »

mariorossi666 wrote: post #226
dependenttypes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "entire intelligence community is deflated Anything that makes the intelligence community deflated is a good thing.

Unless it means that those attacks that the intelligence community prevented will take place.

No one has demonstrated net positive value from the intelligence community.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#325

Post by TomMarius »

pcroh wrote: post #321
andy_ppp wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think making up charges and constantly threatening to destroy you are not extremely stressful. He has a family too that he's been unable to see properly for a long while. Is his only current crime skipping bail on charges he believed were fake? Clearly, facing deportation to the US is problematic for a number of reasons, mostly that it's impossible for even Snowden to get a fair trial there, let alone…

Skipping bail on charges he believe were fake is a crime, yes. If we was so sure of the charges being fake then he should have let them judge him.

Maybe he didn't trust the judge/court to fairly judge him?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#326

Post by monocasa »

shadowgovt wrote: post #310
colejohnson66 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?

There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whis…

As a contractor, there was no legal whistleblower process for him to follow. He did escalate internally as much as he could before the leaks though.

Snowden also took a lot and leaked a massive dump, it was Greenwald, et al. that parred it down.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#327

Post by peterwwillis »

ceejayoz wrote: post #3
ivl wrote: post #2

> "The reason for this decision is that the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed since the events in question." I'm not sure I understand what's meant by this. Did the victims testimony change? How does evidence weaken over time?

Memory weakens over time, and the case would've largely hinged on memory-based testimony.

This is true, but "people are unable to retrieve roughly 50% of information one hour after encoding" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4183265/). Memory distortion can happen all kinds of ways, but it doesn't take very long at all for it to happen. The idea that after 9 years they would finally decide that maybe the witness's memory might be degraded, that ship has already sailed around the world several times.

Prosecutors will wait until the end of time and still trot out memory-based testimony (as long as it still supports their case), so I think the claim about why they dropped the case is specious.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#328

Post by Mountain_Skies »

dleslie wrote: post #267
duxup wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you define a "free country" as?

I like ones with full suffrage for all citizens of age of majority, including criminals. Like Canada.

Canada has a rather restrictive version of freedom of speech.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#329

Post by dependenttypes »

mariorossi666 wrote: post #294
dependenttypes wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She wasn't technically a whistleblower How so? > technically she stole classified documents You can't steal online data. You can only copy it. > betrayed her country that she swore to protect Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the people. This sounds like a very honourable (and whistleblow-y) thing to do. > She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.…

> You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-…

> that's stealing a document in anyone's book.

It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not. Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech. Most people would be very upset if you stole their car, not so much if you copied it.

> I'm simply saying that a military court said that.

You might want to edit your previous post then. From "technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect." to "The military court claims that she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect", in which case I would claim that the military is corrupt and trying to cover their own asses. Anyway, whatever the military court said does not change the reality of the situation.

> Which is what happens when you're in the armed forces and have to deal with justice.

Yes, and I am against that as the objective of such "courts" is to do the military's bidding (which is to unfairly punish whistle-blowers and give lighter punishments to war criminals).

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#330

Post by mattigames »

jimbokun wrote: post #222
black_puppydog wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. They're accusing him under a law that would not allow him to present any motive for what he did. Not a fair trial by most countries' standards.

What is an acceptable motive for rape?

The charges he will be facing on the US are for spionage (under patriot act) not rape.
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