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Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

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Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#321

Post by dylan604 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #288
tempsy wrote: post #184

Makes me think really hard about tech’s blind adoration for the “PayPal mafia.” I find myself seeing more instances of soul crushing amoral behavior from this group of entrepreneurs than just about any other group.

Every person I know in tech thinks the lot of them are different forms of Satan. It's the people outside of tech, that don't know of their exploits, that don't think that.

But it's not just one tech company. Readers of HN are leaning to most, at least a lot the big ones, as forms of Satan. Facebook, Amazon, Google, PayPal, Uber, etc are all companies I go out of my way to not conduct business if I can help it. I'll also just add any too-big-to-fail bank to that list of forms of Satan as well. While not the tech companies people think of, they are nothing but tech on the inside. Why does it still take overnight for checks to be deposited vs an immediate transfer? (only slightly rhetorical)

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#322

Post by monitorman »

soup10 wrote: post #319
rurp wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies face stiff competition and that's no reason to excuse immoral behavior. Not to mention that Google tried to acquire Yelp and was turned down. Either Yelp's plan to take on Google always included copious dark patterns, or their earlier plans totally failed and this is what they've fallen back on. Either way Yelp can't die soon enough.

What are you talking about stiff competition? Google just lazily cloned it and hijack the results of restaurant searches so they win by default.

You challenge that it is stiff competition in your first sentence, then you define that Google is, indeed, stiff competition in your second.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#323

Post by bscphil »

la_barba wrote: post #308
rurp wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you happen to always download mobile apps doesn't negate the fact that many people don't, and deliberately crippling a mobile site to coerce people to download an app they otherwise wouldn't is an extremely clear case of being user hostile.

I simply don't agree with your opinion. Hopefully thats still allowed here, and we can shake hands on that. Have a nice day..

You haven't responded to the points your parent comments are making. The argument is that making it difficult for users not to use your mobile app is hostile. You have been responding by saying that you prefer to use mobile apps (for reasons many people, myself included, disagree with). That's simply not relevant to the fact that it's hostile to force users into an experience they don't want.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#324

Post by spunker540 »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #291
efa wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a very dumb question. Why do sites like Yelp/Quora try very hard to force you to use the app instead of the web site? Isn't it easier to make money on ads on the web? In the Yelp app I don't get any ads. I may be more likely to browse longer in the app I guess.

> make money on ads on the web? well yeah, but a local app can get a more detailed fingerprint off the user, which includes location visited, app installed, habits etc. an app can do a lot more things when installed and closed compared to a closed browser tab. > the Yelp app I don't get any ads the profile is sent upstream and aggregated. ads served from other apps and on web pages you visit have a chance of using in…

Also the app can send notifications to force re-engagement.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#325

Post by la_barba »

bscphil wrote: post #323
la_barba wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply don't agree with your opinion. Hopefully thats still allowed here, and we can shake hands on that. Have a nice day..

You haven't responded to the points your parent comments are making. The argument is that making it difficult for users not to use your mobile app is hostile. You have been responding by saying that you prefer to use mobile apps (for reasons many people, myself included, disagree with). That's simply not relevant to the fact that it's hostile to force users into an experience they don't want.

> The argument is that making it difficult for users not to use your mobile app is hostile.

It isn't hostile - because as I stated, websites are often janky when used in a mobile browser, especially interactive websites, in which case the app is a net positive. This is my experience and opinion, and I don't hide behind "many people think __".

Everyone is free to have their opinion, but I hope you realize that passing it off as fact, and then forcing someone to agree with it is silly.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#326

Post by spunker540 »

rurp wrote: post #292
la_barba wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on your POV. I haven't found a mobile website that I liked using. The touch/swipe/double-tap experience is always janky, sometimes you want to zoom in on a map, but it zooms the entire page, etc, etc. Maybe if it was just text with no interactivity, then being a mobile website wouldn't matter. Personally I don't mind spending a couple of minutes installing an app if its useful.

Just because you happen to always download mobile apps doesn't negate the fact that many people don't, and deliberately crippling a mobile site to coerce people to download an app they otherwise wouldn't is an extremely clear case of being user hostile.

Are they obligated to maintain feature parity across apps and websites? Is focusing on one or the other acceptable to you? If I prefer an app, and a website doesn’t have a high quality app or the app constantly pushes me to the website, is that also user hostile? It sounds like your definition of user-hostile is “things you don’t like”.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#327

Post by SilasX »

dwighttk wrote: post #309
SilasX wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it’s a sad commentary on modern web development how often I request the desktop site while on mobile.

the worst is when the site refuses to give you the desktop version (surprised yelp hasn't done this yet) need a "demand desktop version" option

Or a "demand better development" signal :-p

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#328

Post by tvladeck »

moate wrote: post #168
jonas21 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tried to use Google maps to find good buffalo wings in Brooklyn. But, the top suggestion didn't even have buffalo sauce on the menu! Just soy! That says more about Brooklyn than Google Maps.

While ragging on Brooklyn hipsters can be fun, I promise you, there's real wing joints scattered all over the place. Yes, there's also probably a place doing a chicken skin crackling with a capsaicin blue cheese emulsion as well, but you can also just get some wings.

Came here to agree with you. Tons of great wings spots here.

Also, The Infatuation is great for NYC restaurant reviews.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#329

Post by oneepic »

Would any Yelpers here care to comment on the issue? I interviewed there in the past, and know friends that work there. When I asked what they thought about the "blackmail" rumors from a while back they just laughed it off, because they honestly thought they were just rumors. And they enjoyed their work, and their work-life balance, and all that. Sounded like a fun, positive place to work, if you ignored the headlines.

So there's a disconnect here. Is there a dark pattern and slimy business going on in Yelp, or is this simply a weird situation that got sensationalized by a news article? I'm hesitant to make any assumptions.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#330

Post by matz1 »

troydavis wrote: post #133

Developers who have been asked to implement a UX dark pattern like this one (or Yelp’s decision to forcibly open the App Store without warning in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20625852 ), did you implement it? Why or why not? I can’t imagine a case where I would be skilled enough to obtain employment at Yelp, and thus at other companies too, and yet would agree to implement something particularly slimy instead…

Everyone has different value, I happily design and implement "dark" pattern if needed, to me its just pattern.
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