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Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

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Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#291

Post by LoSboccacc »

efa wrote: post #261
kadabra9 wrote: post #12

Yelp is such a slimy company. First they wall off their mobile web reviews to try to force you to download their POS app, they have the whole extortion racket going trying to strongarm restaurants into paying for advertising, and now this. Friendly reminder - if you are on mobile and trying to read a Yelp review and don't want to download their app, simply hold refresh, click "request desktop site" and it will load t…

Probably a very dumb question. Why do sites like Yelp/Quora try very hard to force you to use the app instead of the web site? Isn't it easier to make money on ads on the web? In the Yelp app I don't get any ads. I may be more likely to browse longer in the app I guess.

> make money on ads on the web?

well yeah, but a local app can get a more detailed fingerprint off the user, which includes location visited, app installed, habits etc. an app can do a lot more things when installed and closed compared to a closed browser tab.

> the Yelp app I don't get any ads

the profile is sent upstream and aggregated. ads served from other apps and on web pages you visit have a chance of using information collected by yelp even if yelp itself is not showing the ads, that's the point of it, a seemingly innocuous "ads free" app collects telemetry and third parties use that info to build a profile and serve personalized ads on other apps and web pages, correlating sidechannel info (last seen position, ip and other) to unmask your browser/app session and pin it to your "shadow identity" in the advertisers' system.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#292

Post by rurp »

la_barba wrote: post #247
CydeWeys wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right away, the fact that it requires downloading and installing an app (which you then have to log in to) leaves it pretty far behind in the "better user experience" race vs a mobile website that just works. It's hard to catch up from that deficit. I don't bother with the Yelp app anymore because I'm sick and tired of having to re-download and re-log in to every app (which can be painful since I don't reuse password…

I guess it depends on your POV. I haven't found a mobile website that I liked using. The touch/swipe/double-tap experience is always janky, sometimes you want to zoom in on a map, but it zooms the entire page, etc, etc. Maybe if it was just text with no interactivity, then being a mobile website wouldn't matter. Personally I don't mind spending a couple of minutes installing an app if its useful.

Just because you happen to always download mobile apps doesn't negate the fact that many people don't, and deliberately crippling a mobile site to coerce people to download an app they otherwise wouldn't is an extremely clear case of being user hostile.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#293

Post by rorykoehler »

scarface74 wrote: post #200
TremendousJudge wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some companies simply aren't meant to be billion dollar companies, yet raise money as if they will be. Well, according to some quick searches the founders seem to be doing pretty alright by themselves. It depends if your objective for founding a company is "do something useful" or "get filthy rich as soon as possible"

If you take venture funding - by definition you’re not trying to run a lifestyle business - your only goal is an exit strategy.

Whose exit strategy? The companies or your own.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#294

Post by leroy_masochist »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #258
leroy_masochist wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't agreement to no class action an ipso facto law violation and unenforceable in most states -- e.g., the way noncompete provisions are in California?

The other way around. The supreme court continually permits no class action in agreements split right down political lines.

I learn new things on HN every day!

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#295

Post by siruncledrew »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #191
tempsy wrote: post #184

Makes me think really hard about tech’s blind adoration for the “PayPal mafia.” I find myself seeing more instances of soul crushing amoral behavior from this group of entrepreneurs than just about any other group.

the ones on "tech" that profess blind adoration towards these people are the ones that are in it for the profits

I'll caveat with saying not all entrepreneurs are this way, but the 'entrebroneurs' are the ones allured to the douchebag persona of being a "Russ Hanneman" type of founder.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#296

Post by Wowfunhappy »

scarface74 wrote: post #287
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so the problem isn't Dropbox's original business model was inherently flawed, but that they have a competitor who is behaving unsustainably.

You really think that Microsoft is losing money on Office 365 subscriptions?

That's what the GP said, not me. "They're basically giving away services and throwing money at it to pad growth for Azure."

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#297

Post by usrusr »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #194
cj wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hypergrowth demanded by investors when you take on $1.7B in funding is what's the challenge. This. The local pizza joint is probably a great family operated business with a enough profit to support the owners + employees (but probably not enough profit to support the owners, employees AND investors). If you take that same pizza joint and give them $10m from investors, the pizza joint will attempt to franchise t…

>Some companies simply aren't meant to be billion dollar companies, yet raise money as if they will be. Well, according to some quick searches the founders seem to be doing pretty alright by themselves. It depends if your objective for founding a company is "do something useful" or "get filthy rich as soon as possible"

If that's your success metric you are acting fraudulently as soon as you take investor money, because you won't get that without claiming to commit to the goal of making them rich(er) as well.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#298

Post by VBprogrammer »

sarah180 wrote: post #241
VBprogrammer wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was one of the biggest takeaways from the "Startup podcast". If you haven't heard it, it details Alex Blumberg (of this American Life fame) attempts to create a company producing high quality long form podcasts. At one point he and his partner are getting excited that they are on the road to profitability in 6 months. One of their VCs gets upset by this saying that targeting profitability is a sure way to end up…

The VC isn't exactly wrong about this. If you want a valuation in the hundreds of millions or billions, your goal is to figure out how to grow fast and capture defensible territory in a market. Profit is less important than growth—as long as you have a path to profit based on that growth. If you're not aiming for this kind of territory, you're not really compatible with the VC financial model, which is designed aroun…

This has been the SV narrative for the last decade or so but I'm not sure that it will stand the test of time. It seems likely that the bubble will pop on these companies going public without having returned an honest penny.

But there is probably a reason I'm not drowning in money like most investor types.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#299

Post by reaperducer »

jaclaz wrote: post #94
Mikeb85 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in this case there's a million anecdotal stories about Yelp doing this. I've been in the restaurant industry a long time, I've taken calls from Yelp sales agents, they're shit. And their sales pitch basically is extortion (pay us to hide your bad reviews, or else). I've seen owners straight up tell them to fuck off. Thankfully they have zero traction here; my last place had a 4.5 rating on Google with 250+ rev…

JFYI: http://www.bottobistro.com/YELP.html

I do not have enough thumbs to adequately show my support for this.

Re: Yelp Is Replacing Restaurants’ Phone Numbers So Grubhub Can Take a Cut

#300

Post by fortran77 »

Considering that you can't opt out of a Yelp listing, I think they've crossed a line here. They're basically putting up misleading directory pages for real businesses that intentionally have wrong information.

I hope someone can successfully argue that willfully spreading misleading information about someone else's business is wrong and actionable.

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