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Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

theguardian.com

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Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#321

Post by chongli »

abandonliberty wrote: post #255
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year?

Billionaires like Bill Gates. Countless volunteer aid workers with organizations such as MSF.

Fact #1: Since 1960, child deaths have plummeted from 20 million a year to 6 million a year. [1] This was posted quite recently here on HN. Perhaps you missed it.

At the end of the day, the problem of child poverty and the death and suffering it causes is an enormous one but we are making progress on it. Could we do better? Yes. Could we do worse? Oh yes, way way worse.

[1] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Max-Roser-three-facts...

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#322

Post by blhack »

abandonliberty wrote: post #255
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

Every person who works at Monsanto or pioneer seed? Every tax paying American, person who gives to charity?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#323

Post by Shivetya »

abandonliberty wrote: post #255
bdz wrote: post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

13 people were in their situation by chance and bad luck. 3.1 million people are in their position likely because of corrupt governments.

We can help the 13 because government is not the cause and there is nothing to undo, we cannot help the 3.1 as easily because it would take either removing the government in power to putting the 3.1 in further jeopardy trying to fix it. So the real question becomes, when will the world recognize that some small countries need outside governance to see to the needs of their people. Right now sovereignty is absolute unless the nation in question threatens a neighboring country.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#324

Post by dnautics »

c22 wrote: post #310
merpnderp wrote: post #272

I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.

How do you tease apart the effects of capitalism and industrialism? Or are they inextricably linked in your world view?

Look at the noncapitalistic countries that industrialized and compare outcomes.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#325

Post by vkou »

mikec3010 wrote: post #311
abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

> who die of malnutrition Do they die of malnutrition or governmental corruption? I thought it was proven in the 1980's that the problem isn't a lack of food, it's the degenerate political systems blocking aid from reaching those who are dying. At least that's the prevailing narrative on reddit.

It's both corruption, and economics. A lot of places with famines are capable of being self-sufficient, in terms of food production, but it's just not profitable for farmers to grow it (And sell it domestically).

When a million people died in the Irish potato famine, it wasn't just because the United Kingdom prevented foreign aid from reaching Ireland. Ireland was the breadbasket of the empire - throughout that entire time, it was a net exporter of food.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#326

Post by slashdev »

Jwarder wrote: post #299
_ylmx wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> concentration camps This does nothing, but underplay the significance of the holocaust.

But they are literal concentration camps. Concentration camps have existed before and after the Nazis; that's not some idea they invented. The horror of the Holocaust is focused around the death camps more than the concentration camps.

Concentration camps were used very effectively by the British against the Boers (farmers) in South Africa at the turn of the previous century. They killed more women and children than men on both sides [1].

During the first World War, they renamed New Berlin to Kitchener here in Canada. They may as well have named it Hitlerville. The scale of evil wasn't as horrible as the Holocaust, but it was pretty damn awful. It's true what they say, that the victors write the history books. So few people know about that story.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#327

Post by thieving_magpie »

chrisper wrote: post #263
_sbxe wrote: post #245

I feel like we all really needed this story. For once, there's nothing political or divisive. There's no one to be mad at. It's not "us or them". The world's top experts came together, volunteered for a dangerous mission, sacrificed, and pulled it off. Ra! Ra! Humanity! Feels like a brief moment of redemption.

>There's no one to be mad at. Except at the soccer coach who thought it was a good idea to endanger 12 children by going into a cave during monsoon season which also led to the death of an innocent person?

The monsoon season starts in July. They went in at the end of June. All warning signs in front of the cave are about July through October. There's a risk there sure but you're giving out bad information here needlessly.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#328

Post by tomjen3 »

chongli wrote: post #321
abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Billionaires like Bill Gates. Countless volunteer aid workers with organizations such as MSF. Fact #1: Since 1960, child deaths have plummeted from 20 million a year to 6 million a year. [1] This was posted quite recently here on HN. Perhaps you missed it. At the end of the day, the problem of child poverty and the death and suffering i…

I hear that argument a lot. 6 million is a holocaust a year, I don't know if that is worth celebrating.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#329

Post by Maken »

mikec3010 wrote: post #311
abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

> who die of malnutrition Do they die of malnutrition or governmental corruption? I thought it was proven in the 1980's that the problem isn't a lack of food, it's the degenerate political systems blocking aid from reaching those who are dying. At least that's the prevailing narrative on reddit.

There is also the issue that food is not free and people starving can't pay for it.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#330

Post by tomjen3 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #286
abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

Globalization lifts 138k people out of extreme poverty per day. http://www.newsweek.com/now-good-news-poor-are-getting-riche...

And good for the individuals, but that still means there is a scarily large number of persons in extreme poverty.
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