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What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

medium.freecodecamp.com

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Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#321

Post by user5994461 »

voycey wrote: post #306
mkurz wrote: post #285

Holy shit. Is this some kind of a joke? > Otherwise, companies automatically categorize us into junior developer roles or tag us as “not enough experience.” ??? What do you think you are after a TWELVE WEEK coding seminar (no matter how intense it was)? It looks frightening to me that he doesn't even know what "junior developer" really means. How ignorant can someone be to NOT think to be a junior dev right after "gr…

100% this! The tech world is due an implosion if this continues, you cant have people with ZERO programming experience beyond a guided 12 week bootcamp being offered anything more than a Junior role?? This single sentence terrifies me: "At Hack Reactor, we’re trained to mask our inexperience. In our personal narratives, we purposely omit our bootcamp education." $120k+ offer for 12 weeks experience - ridiculous, I ho…

At HackCorp. We're trained to ask about the education, listen and hear carefully the narratives from the candidates.

Well. Gotta do that when people comes with a degree from the MIT, a degree from their local university and at the same time an internship at Facebook. All in the same year, from the 3 different cities.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#322

Post by sgarman »

maxaf wrote: post #316

> Early on, I gained experience, built confidence, and secured offers from companies that had less intensive interviews. I hate being used for interview practice. Don't apply to work for me unless you're intending to accept an offer.

If the candidate is good I will take the opportunity to convince them otherwise.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#323

Post by user5994461 »

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

> In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones.

That's what I though as well until we offered £100k to 3 different guys in London.

They all refused saying it was a substantial drop. One actually standed up and left the room :D

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#324

Post by shados »

ubersoldat2k7 wrote: post #82
dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

Maybe I'm wrong but the salary an American gets is the whole package and they have to figure out their income tax, social security, etc. In Europe a good part of what the company pays for an employee is "hidden" but can account to 50%-100% of the gross salary you receive. So if you're getting 50k company is really paying 75k.

The hidden cost of an American employee is probably even higher. Since the company picks up most of the cost of health insurance, its a huge chunk of change right there.

50%~ overhead sounds about right.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#325

Post by user5994461 »

walshemj wrote: post #23
dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

That's over £90k in our terms you can see why Google and othe reengineering companies set up in the UK as we are cheap

FYI: Experienced devs are avoid Google London because they pay shit ^^

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#326

Post by Xyik »

curiouscat321 wrote: post #312
Xyik wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many 22 year olds with a CS degree have been coding since they were 12.

Uh, have something to back this up? That's a very false stereotype.

Anecdotal, from the small sample size I've seen from working in Silicon Valley.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#327

Post by lambda_func »

As someone who has gone through software engineer interviews with top Silicon Valley companies, what I see is that the process is biased towards 1) people with lots of time and good memory (so that you just work for several months to churn through the books/questions available out there), 2) new hires (tend to get easier questions as far as I can see, they don't get design questions, etc.) 3) people with competitive programming experience (especially Google or FB). If you are not in one of these groups then good luck, you will need that. Especially experienced software engineers who are married/have kids have very little time to prepare for these sort of interviews, which makes it very hard for them to succeed. The way software engineers are interviewed right now are totally messed up, and is a big waste of time.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#328

Post by Wwhite »

gxespino wrote: post #277
Wwhite wrote: post #42

At least only 2.8 percent of the companies he contacted were interested in hiring someone whose only genuine reason to be interested in software development is the salary. Now I remember why I've gravitated towards sysadmin rather than dev, and avoid the big tech companies and their cult of overpaid mediocrity.

How did you infer from his post that his only genuine reason for becoming a developer was due to salary?

It is just an inference, for sure, but I reread the post, less angry, and imagining the author was a student I respected; It still comes off a bit crass, especially these two quotes:

"A less-talked about part of the bootcamper’s journey is what happens after you graduate — when you’re searching for that six-figure developer position."

"As I got more experience, I effectively “leveled up.” I became capable of completing interviews at companies with higher hiring bars. This is illustrated below as a linear correlation between the number of weeks I was into the process and the base salary I was offered."

At the same time, if I imagine the author as a (highly organized) co-worker, seeking a better salary, I have a bit more respect for the legwork he has put in (although it is highly unlikely anyone with a full time gig would have the time for it).

It remains unclear whether salary was the author's only reason to become a developer; there is only the absence of counterevidence. I would definitely feel uncomfortable hiring or working with a junior employee who attempts to "mask (their) inexperience", even during the hiring process.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#329

Post by lloyd-christmas »

postman1 wrote: post #295
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average age in my class was 28. People weren't ex-baristas. They were people from various backgrounds, often technical-related. I was a Math and Econ double major with a minor in applied statistics, then spent 6 years in finance doing equities trading. I was drastically more qualified than the average 22 year old with a CS degree.

Just curious why you went from equities trading -> software engineering? I have thought about doing the reverse in the past.

I'm a very competitive person, which is how I ended up in that career. Towards the end of my time trading I realized I was competing with my health. I have epilepsy and hadn't had a seizure in a decade at age 26. I then had a few over my last 2 years of work, which was pretty easily attributed to lack of sleep. I haven't had one since I switched. I gained more than 20 hours in my weekday, some of which is dedicated to a better sleep schedule.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#330

Post by pmiller2 »

merpnderp wrote: post #174
dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

In a tiny town in the middle of nowhere middle america, where the cost of living is 90% the national average, we can't keep college grads starting at $75k with an assured 10% bonus. This is a town where all marble 4,000 square foot McMansions start at $240k. bestplaces.net puts this as a comparable salary to around $280K in San Fran.

Maybe, but $280K in SF pays off the student loans a hell of a lot faster than $83K in the middle of nowhere.
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