What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#301

Post by ThrustVectoring » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:06 AM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #296

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 minutes per company for applications is high. Organization helps a lot, and you can really optimize your workflow for sending out resumes. Finding the company: approximate amount of time spent here is 5 seconds. You have a spreadsheet, just go to the next one on the list. Changing the cover letter: template it with variables. Should end up being a single bash command, most of the time is locating and properly form…

>> 15 minutes per company for applications is high. Applications can be more than just sending out resumes. The worst is when you have to deal with some crappy web site, upload your resume, then fill out a bunch of web forms with your job history, take silly tests, fill out other pages of personal information...

Yeah. It was faster for me to abort when I noticed those and get an application in on the next company on the list instead. Amortized over all the companies on your spreadsheet, that winds up faster.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#302

Post by Noted » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:08 AM UTC

TXV wrote: post #263

UweSchmidt wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much you pay for rent, and how long is your commute? Maybe you feel a little better now :)

I live in my own house and my commute is 20 mins by car, but I still feel bad... thanks for the different point of view though

You live in your own house? That sounds much nicer than being out here in SF.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#303

Post by Mz » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:11 AM UTC

TXV wrote: post #256

I live in what should be considered a developed country in Europe with 5 years work exp also abroad, of which almost 2 of software development in a highly specialized field, and I make one third (1/3) of what the average CS grad makes in SF. It feels very bad...

It feels very bad...

Making scads of money in SF is (or can be) kind of like getting constant blood transfusions so you don't bleed out. It doesn't necessarily translate to a great quality of life.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#304

Post by presto8 » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

linkregister wrote: post #287

vacri wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taxes should take about 39% of salary at that level of income Is that 39% as in marginal tax bracket, or 39% of the absolute total?

Absolute, including federal & California state income tax, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and MediCal.

Don't forget things like short-term disability insurance, which is mandatory in California and can be up to $800/year.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#305

Post by linkregister » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

et-al wrote: post #242

NathanCH wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this before. That said, it's not easy in some cities where rent is 40-50% of your income.

> Eat Ramen, coupons, live like a begger, and save up 1 year of income. It's unsexy, but one doesn't have to live in the hottest part of town, or go to the newest restaurants every weekend. But the problem is that people are to led to believe that programming == tech money == big living, when it's really decent middle-class living which means one should still budget, which may mean not keeping up with the Joneses. Th…

I'd call the lifestyle by most new grads in San Francisco to be on par with the middle-class lifestyle. I think your percentages are way off but the gross dollar values are acceptable when compared to other U.S. locales.

Most new grads in San Francisco are likely eating up most of their income on taxes, rent, and repayment of student loans. After contributing the maximum of $18k to their retirement plan and some modest savings, they likely have enough for one night out per week.

    100000 - 18000 # starting salary minus retirement contribution
    =82000
     82000 * 0.39  # tax before tax refund
    =31980
     82000 - 31980 # salary after taxes and retirement
    =50020
      1200 * 12    # annual rent for a bedroom in a shared house in untrendy area
                   # this $1200 figure is from other posters in this thread
                   # and an cursory look through craigslist
    =14400
     50020 - 14400 # disposable income minus rent
    =35620
       500 * 12    # annual student loan payment for $50k, 120 month loan
    = 6000
     35620 - 6000
    =29620
     29620 / 12    # remaining income per month
    = 2468

$2468 per month to save, spend on food, transportation, et cetera is pretty damn good. I think it leaves about $1000 per month for savings, considering groceries, utilities, recreation, transportation, and miscellaneous expenses.

10% savings sounds bad but the dollar amount is not too terrible. I'm assuming the retirement savings weren't part of the equation, since they can't be readily used for support during unemployment. Overall, the San Francisco Bay Area is not a good place to save money. I think the financially prudent step is to not move to it.

If anyone disagrees with my numbers, please speak up! I would love to be able to optimize my own spending or make suggestions to my new grad friends.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#306

Post by voycey » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

mkurz wrote: post #285

Holy shit. Is this some kind of a joke? > Otherwise, companies automatically categorize us into junior developer roles or tag us as “not enough experience.” ??? What do you think you are after a TWELVE WEEK coding seminar (no matter how intense it was)? It looks frightening to me that he doesn't even know what "junior developer" really means. How ignorant can someone be to NOT think to be a junior dev right after "gr…

100% this! The tech world is due an implosion if this continues, you cant have people with ZERO programming experience beyond a guided 12 week bootcamp being offered anything more than a Junior role??

This single sentence terrifies me:

"At Hack Reactor, we’re trained to mask our inexperience. In our personal narratives, we purposely omit our bootcamp education."

$120k+ offer for 12 weeks experience - ridiculous, I hope he lasts 2 weeks

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#307

Post by linkregister » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #154

Rainymood wrote: post #115

On a related tangent, this is why it is so important to have a so called "Emergency fund"! An emergency fund is a little bit of money (often 1-6x average monthly expenses) such that if you get canned you can survive for 1-6 months without having to work so you can focus on applying for jobs and getting a new job without having to stress when your next bill is due. I agree that 6 months living expenses is on the high…

Depending on how often you expect to need an emergency fund and what the relevant interest rates are for illiquid saving (eg: paying down student loan debt) and unsecured borrowing, it may make more sense to have your emergency fund in an unsecured line of credit or credit cards. Example with made-up numbers: Suppose you spend $2000/mo, you have an unused line of credit of $10000 @ 10%, your student loans are at 5%,…

Lines of credit can be revoked immediately. I have family members who relied on a line of credit only to have the limit dropped and the interest rate hiked by 10%.

The low yield on the emergency cash laying in a checking account is to compensate for its liquidity.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#308

Post by linkregister » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:32 AM UTC

gxespino wrote: post #257

cwmoo740 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rare. And a lot of the businesses that are paying these salaries to new developers aren't profitable, they're running on VC money. In my experience $120k is in line with a developer with a 4-year CS degree and 1-2 years of work experience and maybe some OSS work.

Your personal experience as someone hiring developers or yourself looking for new jobs? I think a candidate with a 4 year CS degree and 1-2 years work experience should probably command more than $120k. A lot of it depends on how well you can sell yourself, IMO.

Where? Also, are you assuming this work experience is at Facebook or Twitter? Most developers in the U.S. work for consulting firms or non-software-core businesses. The fact of the matter is that $120k is the median salary for software developers in the SF bay area, the highest-paying region in the U.S.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#309

Post by voycey » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:38 AM UTC

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

I actually think it is more likely that you have young silicon valley VPs who dont have much experience and have been booted a fuck load of funding, this is likely the reason so many of them fail!

I mean fair play to the guy for landing a salary like that with basically zero experience but it wont end well for him or the company if he is put into a position of responsibility where he has to make strategic decisions.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#310

Post by lucio » Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 1:39 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #152

nemo44x wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is folks in the UK, and even London in particular, get paid quite a bit less than Americans. My wife is from the UK and has worked in London and NYC and she makes quite a bit more money in NYC. She has told me there's no way she'd make her salary in London and it would probably be quite a bit less. She doesn't work in software either; she works in finance. I think part of it is it simply costs a whole lot…

If you're saying that the UK transfers some of the wealth that might've gone to employees and instead diverted it to social programs, that means we need a better analysis to account for the value transfer that's going on. It's possible to see a smaller paycheck and in fact receive a larger value transfer.

How good/efficient is the public sector spending funds?