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What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

medium.freecodecamp.com

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Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#81

Post by jaggederest »

ericmcer wrote: post #28

Is it still a huge deal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of data structures and algorithms? This guy was applying for jobs doing React/Node, which is what I do, and two years after school I cant remember all the details of the sorting algorithms. Would it be so bad to tell the interviewer that if I do anything other than call browser APIs to sort data I am failing at my job and wasting time?

FWIW I've been doing this for over a decade and the number of times I've actually had to care about sort algorithms, balancing red black trees, or that other nonsense is basically only in interviews and only occasionally.

I say as much when people try to pull that stuff on me now. There's a copy of TAOCP on the shelf for a reason, if I need to know a good algorithm, Mr. Knuth's are certainly better than mine.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#82

Post by ubersoldat2k7 »

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

Maybe I'm wrong but the salary an American gets is the whole package and they have to figure out their income tax, social security, etc. In Europe a good part of what the company pays for an employee is "hidden" but can account to 50%-100% of the gross salary you receive. So if you're getting 50k company is really paying 75k.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#83

Post by dohertyjf »

st3v3r wrote: post #50
dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

It sounds like it's in the Bay Area, where that level of salary is kind of a minimum, given cost of living.

Precisely. Bay Area is unlike any other.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#84

Post by TACIXAT »

Slackwise wrote: post #7

This whole hardcore quizzing and testing during interviews has to go. As far as I can see, all it does is create selection bias for people who memorize things or like to practice interview questions. Maybe that's just me being too old for that kinda' crap.

My questions are just there to get people talking about what they have done. Sometimes you ask about malloc and people haven't used it. I think they serve as a pretty decent initial screen. You choose some basic things that people need to know, then some more advanced things that someone who uses a language regularly would know, and ask until you have an idea of where their knowledge ends.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#85

Post by jeremymcanally »

iamatworknow wrote: post #72
prh8 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also: > companies automatically categorize us into junior developer roles in other words, correctly categorized

This was the part I didn't understand at all. You go through a CS program for 4 years or more and end up as a junior developer and that's fine, but if you go through a 12 week coding bootcamp you're somehow more qualified and shouldn't be "benchmarked against junior developers"? I do realize I'm making an assumption that there was no prior CS experience before the bootcamp, but isn't that the crowd they're targeting?

That's because that's what a lot of these bootcamps sell. I've interviewed several grads, and while it's not universal, many of them literally tell their graduates they're going to be better prepared for the Real World™ than their college educated counterparts. Almost like, "You'll be better than a CS grad. All they can do is explain and apply the fundamental thinking process behind all this 'engineering' crap. You, on the other hand, will be able to select elements based on their CSS class. Way more useful."

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#86

Post by garysieling »

throwawaysbdif wrote: post #21
Slackwise wrote: post #7

This whole hardcore quizzing and testing during interviews has to go. As far as I can see, all it does is create selection bias for people who memorize things or like to practice interview questions. Maybe that's just me being too old for that kinda' crap.

I have been interviewing the last couple months and have the same opinion. I've been coding for years and have some pretty complex stuff up on my GitHub. I quickly found out that nobody looks at your GitHub, maybe 10% max. didn't matter that I had code from two weeks ago that did complex segmented locking on a concurrent hashtable. still got asked "what is threading" level questions at every place. After botching my…

How would the interviewer know that you wrote the code on your github?

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#87

Post by talmand »

krosaen wrote: post #64
sfaf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't rails count as a backend engineer? Would you also not count someone who works with Django as a backend engineer?

I would definitely distinguish between html / css / javascript and server side application code, be it in ruby or python, I just didn't think working on the server side application logic completed the "full stack". To me full stack means you are into the systems a bit too and would be capable of setting up the stack itself (and perhaps enhancing it, or setting up custom batch systems), not just working effectively wi…

From my experience I would say that what you are describing at the end there is a full-stack developer. It's someone that works across the application stack, not setting it up to make use of it. Although many probably can, it's just likely not their responsibility.

Of course, all bets are off if it's a small shop.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#88

Post by krosaen »

sfaf wrote: post #74
krosaen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would definitely distinguish between html / css / javascript and server side application code, be it in ruby or python, I just didn't think working on the server side application logic completed the "full stack". To me full stack means you are into the systems a bit too and would be capable of setting up the stack itself (and perhaps enhancing it, or setting up custom batch systems), not just working effectively wi…

Yes, I do feel you have the terminology wrong. I consider myself full stack and I work with Rails, Django, etc. I have interviewed with many companies with the title "Full Stack Developer" and most of them have not expected the type of experience you are talking about. I think you are talking essentially about a Systems roles. When you are full stack there's usually an assumption that you are "better" on one side of…

Cool, thanks.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#89

Post by ARothfusz »

> Coming out of Hack Reactor, my weaknesses were data structures and algorithms. ... > At Hack Reactor, we’re trained to mask our inexperience. In our personal narratives, we purposely omit our bootcamp education.

I fail to see how they prepared this student for a career in software development. Sounds like they get a Masters in technobabble.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#90

Post by Practicality »

3 months of applying? Wow. Seems like whatever he got was well-earned to me. I really stick to projects too, but this is massive. I just don't have the time/patience for 3-months of searching while I am currently working.

Kind of makes me think that the market is selecting people who have someone else supporting them so they can do all this interview research. Seems backward in my opinion.

I keep hearing "interviewing is a skill too." Sure it is, but should it be? I mean, why are hiring managers looking for people who are good at pretending to know things rather than people who demonstrate real aptitude through getting things done?

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