What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#51

Post by exolymph » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

Wwhite wrote: post #42

At least only 2.8 percent of the companies he contacted were interested in hiring someone whose only genuine reason to be interested in software development is the salary. Now I remember why I've gravitated towards sysadmin rather than dev, and avoid the big tech companies and their cult of overpaid mediocrity.

Companies only care about your passion for your craft insofar as it affects your willingness to work overtime for less than you're worth.

(That's a slight exaggeration to make a cynical point, but not far from the truth.)

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#52

Post by endymi0n » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #35

Slackwise wrote: post #7

This whole hardcore quizzing and testing during interviews has to go. As far as I can see, all it does is create selection bias for people who memorize things or like to practice interview questions. Maybe that's just me being too old for that kinda' crap.

There is zero chance of this happening until google/facebook stop doing it. This comment appears in every single interview/hiring thread for past decade. Only change I've seen is actually the opposite now there are 5-10 "rounds" of these quizzes even in a no name enterprise companies.

There is anecdotal evidence they did: http://qz.com/378228/google-is-over-those-ridiculous-brainte...

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#53

Post by TorKlingberg » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

First: Good job on the author! I don't think I could make 300 application in a three months, and I am fortunate that I have never needed to. This is impressive determination and focus, and it paid off.

Second: Wow, programming is becoming a commodity. This is literally 1) Learn the latest trendy framework and nothing else, 2) Study to the test, 3) Interview well. Either the market will be flooded and salaries for generic JS devs will crash, or strong programmers need to find a way to differentiate themselves that cannot be copied by anyone in 2 months.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#54

Post by votr » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

goldenbeet wrote: post #3

TL;DR: The barchart can be misleading. Increasing # of applications can decrease the rate at which they mature into offers. I like some of your points like get through to real people. That's an incredibly important part of landing a job. However I do have an issue with the graphic at the beginning. I think it's misleading, because you shouldn't really be applying to 200+ companies. When you take that kind of approach…

What was your strategy for dealing with how most ML positions require advanced degrees?

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#55

Post by krosaen » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

I'm happy for this guy, and there are really good tips in here for managing an application funnel.

Like others, I'm surprised offers north of 110 are possible given his experience, and can't help but bristle a bit at him being a self described "full stack" developer when it appears he's a front end developer (does rails really count as being a backend engineer?).

But he worked exceptionally hard at the process (guessing having applied to 10x the places a typical engineering grad does?), and also has a strong background in business from a reputable university. For some jobs, especially at startups, knowing how to understand the business problem and deliver results can be really important. The challenge isn't the tech, it's combining just enough tech [1] with essentially being a product manager too.

[1] learning that "just enough tech" is not easy, and it's clear he worked hard to master a lot of material. It's just that many of us have been working that hard for many years and likely have more expertise / ability to learn new tech fast than can be gained by anyone in the course of a few months or a year; hence the initial surprise

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#56

Post by jackess » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

ericmcer wrote: post #32

Slackwise wrote: post #7

This whole hardcore quizzing and testing during interviews has to go. As far as I can see, all it does is create selection bias for people who memorize things or like to practice interview questions. Maybe that's just me being too old for that kinda' crap.

I am pretty young and it seems stupid to me too, this guy wanted to be a React Dev. If he was ever at work writing a binary search tree by hand, or writing his own quick sort function, then he would be wasting his time and creating a huge potential problem point in the code. This guy claims to have worked ~6 days a week for 3 months not to become a great full stack dev, but to become a great interviewee. Seems kinda…

This is what drives me crazy. I'm a bootcamp grad, and I've been interviewing for 6 months. I've spent EVERY single day of those six months, (besides applying and networking and interviewing), working on coding, design, projects, and leveling up so I can collaborate with a team. This guy spends all of his time working on stuff that is considered "level 2", and he will make double what I end up getting. Frustrating.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#57

Post by _petronius » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

gxs wrote: post #34

Great article. The only part that I hesitated with was the part about getting through to real people. After reading a post like this, not sure how hiring managers (or their team) are going to feel about getting inundated with emails from candidates. After all, that exact use case is why we have recruiting departments to begin with. I would tweak it and say use your network to get in touch with real people. The effect…

My sense is that it's just a good way to annoy people whose job isn't hiring. At best, you're risking annoying someone who is busy (and your email being deleted with no reply), at worst, you're actively penalizing yourself if you are demonstrating that you aren't willing to go through the standard hiring process that the company uses. (For other terrible ways that job applicants try to "stand out", Ask A Manager is a veritable goldmine[0]).

[0]: http://www.askamanager.org/2013/06/a-job-applicant-stopped-b...

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#58

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

For some strange reason people hate recruiters, but during my most recent job search - a month ago - I worked with seven recruiting companies. I was submitted to 15 jobs after filtering for commuting distance, technology, salary requirements.

First noticed that I filtered based on salary. Most companies don't divulge salary ranges but recruiters know that up front.

Out of the 17: 2 - positions already filled before I started the process

1 - after further investigation, the technology stack didn't meet my requirements

1 - had qualification I didn't meet

10 - companies that wanted phone screens

8 - phone screens

3 - in person interviews

3 - offers

All of this in only 2-3 weeks. There is some overlap and no company out of the 17 stopped the process (submitted -> phone screen -> in person -> offer). I either stopped the process after accepting an offer, the job req was put on hold, or the position was filled when the recruiter submitted it.

Two points. First, none of the submitted resumes disappeared into a black hole because I was using a recruiter. I knew my status for each job. The second point is that I'm no one special, I know plenty of developers that had the same experience.

Someone else asked how do you keep up with all of the applications - a spreadsheet.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#59

Post by sfaf » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

Well the revenue of US based businesses is at a significantly higher scale than most European technology companies. Specifically companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Intel all make over $500K per employee (Apple is at $2m!). With such a high revenue to employee ratio, these companies can afford to pay developers at rates immensely above what we see anywhere else. And they should, since smart engineers who can move the needle even 0.01% are worth it. Since these companies hire such a high # of engineers, they tend to set the market rates of salaries in the cities they are based in. When you move out of the major cities, U.S. salaries drop significantly.

If Europe can build a few companies that churn out revenue at the scale of Google / Intel/ MSFT, European developer salaries will skyrocket. US companies with offices in Europe have helped salary increases, but really the continent needs a few Googles to really skyrocket salaries.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#60

Post by sfaf » Mon, Nov 21, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

krosaen wrote: post #55

I'm happy for this guy, and there are really good tips in here for managing an application funnel. Like others, I'm surprised offers north of 110 are possible given his experience, and can't help but bristle a bit at him being a self described "full stack" developer when it appears he's a front end developer (does rails really count as being a backend engineer?). But he worked exceptionally hard at the process (guess…

Why doesn't rails count as a backend engineer? Would you also not count someone who works with Django as a backend engineer?