Is there any good advice on how to set yourself on the path to being a manager? Not merely how to manage well (I've read plenty of those), but on how to get yourself in a position where you do manage.
My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
321–330 of 634 posts
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#322He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
OTOH people I know with a lot of money have serious relationship issues. Money distorts your social connections. It's really not worth it. At the end of the game, the king and the pawn go back into the same box (old Sicilian proverb).
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#323I think this guy may actually just be dumb. Yes, C-Suite positions make more money, and get to make more decisions. If he wanted to do that, it sounds like he could have at any time. Of course just being a programmer would earn you less. > Being a programmer for nearly 35 years... > I doubt I will ever be able to really retire. How do you have a good paying job like being a programmer/the other high level gigs he men…
Unfortunately, it seems like he dropped the ball in some major ways. So Apple started to take off a few years after you left? Then taking your fucking amazing technical and leadership skills to Apple! The post-startup is blowing it in terms of product development and the competition is eating their lunch? Then join the fucking competition. Programmers/engineers can change some important things. For example, our emplo…
I agree changing employers is one thing to do.
What do you do if you're not a strong engineer but in a shitty situation?
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#324He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
"The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny."
So you don't think you have this right? I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome.
I learned what this guy learned pretty early on: If you are an employee (developer or not), you will be paid to do things you are against and people less intelligent and experienced than you will be making decisions for you at some point...and you can't do anything about it.
This is the sole reason I started my own company. I was sick of being forced to go down a path of failure..after every attempt to do otherwise was ignored.
After our failure, management never wanted to look bad, so they almost always picked someone to blame. Sometimes it was me or my team, sometimes someone else. Speaking up about it meant you weren't a 'team player' and you would probably be on the chopping block during the next round of layoffs.
I was able to survive most layoffs because I learned how to play politics, but at the cost of never feeling satisfied with my job.
I've had my own company for 5 years and I don't regret a thing. It was the best decision I ever made.
"I just have to say this: So typically american"
Really? I was thinking it was typically Chinese. My wife's family is from China and they pretty much all try to one up/compare each other in terms of assets, money, or jobs.
"If you want to control your destiny, you'd better learn how to make money."
This message is pretty truthful. The more you rely on someone to support you (the government, friends, family, job), the less control you have over your life. Money gives you the ultimate power and freedom to do what you want.
Regardless of your culture, this doesn't change. If you have more more money, you will always have more options/freedom.
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am indeed in the same situation as you and him. But I struggle to conclude anything valuable from his story. Should I get encourage to go for management because another person who maybe different side of the coin compare to me has regretted it in his senior age? Just curious, how did his story change your view on making decision for your fork road?
For me, the combination of the experiences of the people I've met/heard from firsthand which I feel enough subjective similarity to does provide a contributing weight to my decision making process, alongside a really shifting number of personal judgments and extrapolations. In this instance, this has made me more willing to seek out/accept a management position to see if I can address similar feelings of powerlessnes…
A lot is exactly same for me as you described, but my point is that, what factor(s) makes you to exclude Mr Andrew Wulf's personality, sets of skill and life complexity's difference to you from the equation that you ended up concluding more towards his point (going towards management)?
Could it be the fact that you were already thinking of doing such move and this story was just a push?
P.S let's see what reddit guys say about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4dle5m/the_cod...
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#326He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…
>My sister started as a programmer 30 years ago but jumped into management [...] My sister has 10X the assets I have. It's so hilarious that he calls himself a "programmer". With 30+ years of experience, you're a software engineer, an architect, and best of all, a consultant. Then you charge 5x the normal rate of a salaried engineer, work normal hours, and start accumulating real assets. He needed to put down the tec…
>>Then you charge 5x the normal rate of a salaried engineer, work normal hours, and start accumulating real assets.
This is dream which happens only when you are asleep. In real life an older person is less energetic, less enthusiastic, can't do weekends, has health issues, has responsibilities, has family commitments etc etc.
Young people work insane hours, they do that for cheap, they show up on weekends and are more flexible in general.
In most cases. Like in everyday cases experience doesn't pay well as you think. Even in professions like medicine and law that is true.
The assumption that experienced people get paid well applies for a minority few people who for nearly all practical purposes are an exception to the whole rule.
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
Like you, I don't think the author of the blog post wanted money or power for their own sake. Relevant to your final paragraph: People Want Power Because They Want Autonomy [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11340137
Right. If you get a lot of money it doesn't mean you have to go buy a bunch of crap you don't really want. Rather it can give you influence. You can invest in charities or companies you believe in to shape the future. For example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/26/us/tangelo-park-orlando-fl...
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
I'd like to see a concrete defense of the position that going into management gives you greater influence on the outcome of situations. I'm inclined to believe in this quote from "Days of Thunder" (1990): Control is an illusion, you infantile egomaniac. ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099371/quotes )
Agreed in a lot of circumstances. How many bad managers think that yelling to get things done is actually accomplishing something on their part? Good managers have the ability to shepherd their people and resources in a way that gives them a better chance of success and minimizes the potential stumbling blocks. It still requires good people, clear goals, and lots of other things that may or may not be 100% under your control, but even with those caveats, you can generally assume that you'll have a bit more control in management, though parts are more indirect (you're not involved in writing the actual code as much if at all depending on the company, etc.).
But it's really easy to over-estimate that control and your ability to wield it. If the Peter principle is accurate, and people are promoted to their level of incompetence, then it also indicates that people assume their level of competence is higher than it actually is. And then you get project failures, screaming managers, and lots of lost money.
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#329He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
> Therefore, money is seen primarily as a means to self-determination.
And even deeper down, it's a means of survival. The safety net here has pretty much disintegrated since it began to be dismantled in the '80s. A lot of people in the US haven't saved enough for retirement considering this new reality... they haven't even saved enough to get them through a few months of unemployment. There's a loss of hope in rural America now in places where it can be very tough to find decent paying work. It's starting so show up in a decrease in lifespan and in many ways it's very similar to what happened in Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed. The drug of choice there was/is alcohol. Here it seems to be prescription opiates (in addition to alcohol).
Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer
#330He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…
> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…
My big problem with what the writer says is that he assumes power comes from position. Most power, and the most useful power, is soft power. In those cases he cites, such as the startup store, where he thinks he could have made a difference as a leader - sorry, but he could have made a difference as a peon if he built credibility and stuck to his guns. Clearly he didn't have that kind of personality, or has too narrow a view of his job.