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My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

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Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#271

Post by grif-fin »

Don't we just love these such discussions and don't such fork roads in life go back to the core philosophy of an individual's values of her or his life.

I know friends who have always loved programming and will continue till last breath living happily in their world of programming (which is huge these days).

I also know dear friends who have got the most advanced degree's irrelevant to computer science and yet are dreaming to be a programmer.

All said, what can one conclude from Mr Andrew Wulf's judgement of his life? I'm thinking about the answer as I'm writing this... hmm what does this tell me... perhaps not much else that there exist another person who regret his past decision, true or false, the chances are that it is applicable to anyone including me is as much as how much Mr Andrew Wulf's complexity of life and his state of mind are similar to others reading it.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#272

Post by existencebox »

grif-fin wrote: post #271

Don't we just love these such discussions and don't such fork roads in life go back to the core philosophy of an individual's values of her or his life. I know friends who have always loved programming and will continue till last breath living happily in their world of programming (which is huge these days). I also know dear friends who have got the most advanced degree's irrelevant to computer science and yet are dr…

I can only speak for myself, but I found it instructive. There is significant complexity to ones life experience, but I found myself echoing many of his statements and situations, and find myself at a similar crossroads (IC vs Manager).

The fact that our long term desire (to impact positive change) is aligned, and he found himself unable to accomplish that to a sufficient degree as an IC, certainly weights my so-to-say bayesian prior in this decision.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#273

Post by ryandrake »

kdamken wrote: post #174

I think this guy may actually just be dumb. Yes, C-Suite positions make more money, and get to make more decisions. If he wanted to do that, it sounds like he could have at any time. Of course just being a programmer would earn you less. > Being a programmer for nearly 35 years... > I doubt I will ever be able to really retire. How do you have a good paying job like being a programmer/the other high level gigs he men…

Not sure it's fair to judge without knowing the whole story. Maybe he has other costly obligations that you don't know about. Maybe an expensive health condition. Stock market went down. Debts, whatever. Or, he just encountered a string of bad luck (left Apple in the late 90's--oops!). Without those facts, blanket statements like "how do you manage your money that poorly" are unfair.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#274

Post by bigtunacan »

mschaef wrote: post #220
drumdance wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about the same age as you. The passage of time is shockingly fast unless I do things to slow it down. I remember moments from my college days that I can pinpoint to the year they happened. That thing that happened sophomore year? I know it happened sophomore year because I did it with my roommate at the time. But nowadays I'll watch a movie on Netflix thinking it came out just in the past year or two, only to dis…

> I think having kids, which I have not done, might slow time down a bit. Speaking from firsthand experience, it seems to do just the opposite.

As a father of 3 I agree. Children in my experience just makes you more aware of how quickly time is passing. My oldest is now in junior high, but it seems like just yesterday she was a baby.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#275

Post by grif-fin »

existencebox wrote: post #272
grif-fin wrote: post #271

Don't we just love these such discussions and don't such fork roads in life go back to the core philosophy of an individual's values of her or his life. I know friends who have always loved programming and will continue till last breath living happily in their world of programming (which is huge these days). I also know dear friends who have got the most advanced degree's irrelevant to computer science and yet are dr…

I can only speak for myself, but I found it instructive. There is significant complexity to ones life experience, but I found myself echoing many of his statements and situations, and find myself at a similar crossroads (IC vs Manager). The fact that our long term desire (to impact positive change) is aligned, and he found himself unable to accomplish that to a sufficient degree as an IC, certainly weights my so-to-s…

I am indeed in the same situation as you and him. But I struggle to conclude anything valuable from his story. Should I get encourage to go for management because another person who maybe different side of the coin compare to me has regretted it in his senior age?

Just curious, how did his story change your view on making decision for your fork road?

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#276

Post by mordocai »

ulkesh wrote: post #190
kdamken wrote: post #174

I think this guy may actually just be dumb. Yes, C-Suite positions make more money, and get to make more decisions. If he wanted to do that, it sounds like he could have at any time. Of course just being a programmer would earn you less. > Being a programmer for nearly 35 years... > I doubt I will ever be able to really retire. How do you have a good paying job like being a programmer/the other high level gigs he men…

I agree that materialistic thinking and living certainly contributes to lack of savings/retirement assets. But so does simply having a family, especially as a single parent or when the spouse doesn't work. You might say "well, the spouse can go work," but it's rarely that simple considering the costs of child care and how it may weigh on the spouse's potential salary. Then factor in if the spouse can even get a highe…

My spouse doesn't work. I'm nearly 25 and on/above target on my 401k savings and am slowly gaining money in regular savings accounts too. I made some bad decisions with debt a few years ago or I'd be even farther ahead.

I live in Missouri though, which has pretty low cost of living.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#278

Post by waspleg »

Zelmor wrote: post #113
tomp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10X the assets => retire 10 times sooner => program when you're retired => no missing out

That's stupid. I am not willing to suffer for 20 years to then enjoy the remaining 30-40 whatever there will be. You don't know how long you will live, and what is your old days worth if you broken in your youth trying to be safe when you are 50? I'd rather work, as some do, 3-4 hours every single day for the rest of my life, than 12 hour days for 10 years and then compensate my lost youth, health and relationships w…

To be honest, this is a first world problem. Most people on Earth (and honestly, at least the in US, the majority of people http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/05/news/economy/job_satisfactio...) work at a job they hate because they feel they have to for whatever reason be it survival or their kids or their bills, etc.

My job is easy (for me), requires little from me and very occasionally is worth getting out of bed for. I'm probably one of the lowest paid people here. But, I take lunch when I want, I wear what I want, I have a situation that is somewhat flexible (not because the employer wants it to be and actively dissuades it, but because my co-worker and I will mutually look out for and cover for each other). The benefits are bad. Treatment by management ranges from indifference to overtly hostile for the most part.

I'm not a programmer and would put myself somewhere in the middle satisfaction wise. The money sucks but I've had worse jobs and the time off (2 months a year), while unpaid, is great.

$.02, my ultimate point was not worrying where your next meal is coming from is a luxury most people don't have - so worrying that you're not doing something fulfilling becomes a secondary concern at best.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#279

Post by cushychicken »

quaunaut wrote: post #232
ulkesh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that materialistic thinking and living certainly contributes to lack of savings/retirement assets. But so does simply having a family, especially as a single parent or when the spouse doesn't work. You might say "well, the spouse can go work," but it's rarely that simple considering the costs of child care and how it may weigh on the spouse's potential salary. Then factor in if the spouse can even get a highe…

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

My first job was working for Micron in Boise, ID, and I lived like royalty on their college-hire engineer salary. Loved the town, wasn't into the work.

I'd move back to Boise in a heartbeat.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#280

Post by jsogbein »

If only life was so linear and predictable You could have remained at Apple and Steve Jobs would have never returned and several other possibilities and cumulative possibilities based on the combinations of all those other possibilities.
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