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My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

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Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#211

Post by jdkoeck »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #203
Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

>I just have to say this: So typically american. And without this attitude we wouldn't have the things we have today. Trust me, Gates, Jobs, and a slew of others who built our modern world didn't do what they did for fun. They did it for (mostly) money. The same way the successful people in revolutionary fields today are doing so for money. We can't have progress if we sit back and just judge everyone as "greedy" and…

Steve Jobs had plenty of character failings, but to say that he did what he did "for money" is a gross misunderstanding of what really drove him (a yearn for exceptional design, often at the expense of user choice).

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#212

Post by exelius »

Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

> I just have to say this: So typically american.

The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended.

The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence.

Americans are often seen as greedy relative to our European counterparts. But you have to remember that there's a different social contract over in the USA -- if you fall, you're on your own. Therefore, money is seen primarily as a means to self-determination.

Now, this all gets fucked when you throw in consumer culture on top of it, but the desire to accumulate large sums of money is not uniquely American -- but we're damn good at it because the cultural message we get sent early on is that once you're an adult, you're on your own. If you want to control your destiny, you'd better learn how to make money.

But notice that the author's main complaint wasn't about money -- it was about all the wasted opportunities where if he had more power (in the form of a management role) he could have had more influence on the outcome of situations he was involved with. The loss of self-determination is the big gripe -- and the entire reason I hit the eject button from engineering early in my career.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#213

Post by drumdance »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #173
dcw303 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still coding after almost 20 years in the job, and have no intention of stopping. I tried some other options - teacher, artist, entrepreneur. None of them give me the thrill that I get from programming. I still get locked into a flow where time shifts, and before I know it hours have passed. The only other activity that does that is Civ, and no-one is going to pay me to play that ;) If 10x assets is what drives y…

I'm in my late forties and have been a professional developer for 25+ years. I agree with what you said in your comment, but this stood out: "You might be dead tomorrow; you might as well enjoy today." This is not a bad way to live, but as I get older I am increasingly aware that there will be a day when I'm dead tomorrow. And for that reason I'm increasingly less interested in spending time in the state where "time…

I'm about the same age as you. The passage of time is shockingly fast unless I do things to slow it down.

I remember moments from my college days that I can pinpoint to the year they happened. That thing that happened sophomore year? I know it happened sophomore year because I did it with my roommate at the time.

But nowadays I'll watch a movie on Netflix thinking it came out just in the past year or two, only to discover it came out in, say, 2007 or worse 1997.

A close friend of mine's daughter just turned 16. I remember her birth like it was yesterday. But the intervening years... not so much.

I think having kids, which I have not done, might slow time down a bit. Travel helps too.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#214

Post by drzaiusapelord »

DrNuke wrote: post #169

Not only programming: all salaried jobs end in tears if the employee realises there is more than a paycheck in life but, that said, he/she can't afford to try and startup as an entrepreneur.

I think about this often. Chasing a big salaried job is like being the tallest midget. I think if you want to really play the big money/status game then entrepreneurship is going to be the bigger prize. Getting an MBA is the risk-averse option and probably won't get you that big salary you're dreaming of. There are just too many externalities here. His cites his sister, but was she promoted often to get up gender quotas, that he as a man, would not qualify for? Is she better connected than him? More attractive? Better natural social and empathic skills? How much did just luck play in her success?

I think you probably have a better chance of starting a successful business than fight your way to a C-level job.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#215

Post by cableshaft »

Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

I was a programmer, and then spent a year and a half as a games producer, and could have kept going down that path, but decided to go back in programming.

Half the time I spent as a producer I was worried about the fact that I wasn't doing any programming, and my skills were atrophying.

Production had some real perks in comparison, being able to meet a lot of people I admired, going on business trips, etc, but I got frustrated with only trying to cajole developers to add certain features that I thought would make the game better, instead of being able to dive into the code and add the feature myself, and iterate until all the kinks came out of it.

You'd be surprised how many times you can say "this game is too hard, you have to make it easier" or "the text in this UI is too small, you need to make it easier to read" and developers still won't do it, or will only tweak it marginally to say they did it, instead of sitting down and actually trying to make the game easier.

And then the game comes out, and it gets blasted by critics for being "too damn hard".

If I were in that position today I'd be a lot more specific, but I can only iterate when they give me a new build, which usually takes days. I can't change a variable and rebuild it in 30 seconds like I could as a developer.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#217

Post by VLM »

tomp wrote: post #29
Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

10X the assets => retire 10 times sooner => program when you're retired => no missing out

My dad never really retired, but lets just say he got extremely picky about the contracts he picked up and the people he would work with. Being able to do what you want, rather than what you need to do to survive, is pretty nice.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#218

Post by exelius »

justaman wrote: post #198
bucma wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people who are picking up on the 10x assets thing are missing the point... Money can help you feel better about things when things in general aren't going well. What he says about missed opportunities, and working for idiotic management, that's the big thing here. You work your ass off, the management does dumb things, so the thing you're working on never really pays off, in money or fun. The fact that his si…

I think the disconnect between management and the developers is worth discussing. Its important for management to understand the difficulties and decisions made by a development team to properly create a roadmap for the business. I think the author is expressing that the lack of respect for the programmers opinions can be detrimental.

It's more that in a business (which is a power structure optimized for efficiency - meaning hierarchical power structure) the programmers are at the bottom of the pyramid. Involving their input would take far too many layers of overhead; so the decisions get made further up where there are fewer people to consult (and hence more efficient).

IMO it is essential in today's world to have competent engineering management in the room whenever any major product decisions are made.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#219

Post by dubmax123 »

Awesome post. Being in the ditches often allows you to see easy ways to fix problems. Being a leader makes it hard to see what's going on in the ditches. There aren't many leaders that listen to the people in the ditches. Unfortunately, most corporations and people in general don't value leaders who listen. They value leaders with charisma. They value leaders that project confidence even if they don't know what the hell they are talking about. It's up to us as programmers to start taking those leadership opportunities and take the road less travelled.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#220

Post by mschaef »

drumdance wrote: post #213
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my late forties and have been a professional developer for 25+ years. I agree with what you said in your comment, but this stood out: "You might be dead tomorrow; you might as well enjoy today." This is not a bad way to live, but as I get older I am increasingly aware that there will be a day when I'm dead tomorrow. And for that reason I'm increasingly less interested in spending time in the state where "time…

I'm about the same age as you. The passage of time is shockingly fast unless I do things to slow it down. I remember moments from my college days that I can pinpoint to the year they happened. That thing that happened sophomore year? I know it happened sophomore year because I did it with my roommate at the time. But nowadays I'll watch a movie on Netflix thinking it came out just in the past year or two, only to dis…

> I think having kids, which I have not done, might slow time down a bit.

Speaking from firsthand experience, it seems to do just the opposite.

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