My Biggest Regret as a Programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#291

Post by andyjohnson0 » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #212

Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…

Like you, I don't think the author of the blog post wanted money or power for their own sake. Relevant to your final paragraph: People Want Power Because They Want Autonomy [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11340137

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#292

Post by fefifofu » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

dcw303 wrote: post #38

Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

I'm still coding after almost 20 years in the job, and have no intention of stopping. I tried some other options - teacher, artist, entrepreneur. None of them give me the thrill that I get from programming. I still get locked into a flow where time shifts, and before I know it hours have passed. The only other activity that does that is Civ, and no-one is going to pay me to play that ;) If 10x assets is what drives y…

The thing is, you "tried some other options - teacher, artist, entrepreneur". I think "trying" is the key. It helps you be more satisfied with the road you are on when you've been on the other roads (at least a for a little bit).

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#293

Post by baldfat » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

> The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost

TL:DR: There was no road less traveled by they were equally the same, but he fooled himself into think he made a special choice.

Just some poetry discussion. "The Road Not Taken" is considered the most misunderstood and misinterpreted poem. (It was great to make freshmen tackle this poem in freshmen Theology Class. Then we went on to most misinterpreted scripture verse :)

So, in the end, while he was very clear in the present that the two roads were identical with no real reason to take one over the other, later in life he knew he’d once again fool himself, this time successfully, by instead remembering that one road was “less traveled by” and that this influenced his decision, when in fact he really decided on a whim. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/09/robert-frost...

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#294

Post by nunez » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #23

There are many more jobs as programmer than as CTO/CIO/VP. Furthermore, what makes you think that you would be as good at politics as you are at coding? People in management positions are often in competition with each other on a kill or be killed basis. OK, not that extreme but you get the idea. Politics is important in that game. There was also an interesting post on HN a few days ago about the hurdles of managemen…

If you have 1000 jobs that pay $100/hr each and 100 jobs that pay $1000/hr each, and you qualify for both (the former more easily than the latter), which would you rather try for?

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#295

Post by brianwawok » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

WesleyJohnson wrote: post #187

brianwawok wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think his sister worked 10x the hours? So say a 400 hour week?

Working harder doesn't always mean working more hours. After 8 hours sitting at a desk programming, sometimes I realize how lucky I am to not have to hand-load semis all day in a blistering hot distribution center. And then sometimes, after a particularly grueling programming session working on the same bug for 8 hours, I yearn for a day of work where I can shut my brain off and chuck some boxes. 'Harder' is subjecti…

I have programmed, and I have worked in factories, such as a door factory.

Programming is 100% beyond a doubt harder. My brain is mush at the end of a good day of programming.

Making doors? Physically tired but mentally fine.. and I find the physical side was easier to recover from.

So I get the door making -> programming is "harder" and I make about 10x the money.. but I would not say it was 10x harder, maybe 1.3x harder.. so clearly programming is a better job for me than door making.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#296

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

nunez wrote: post #196

This post resonated with me. I've realized that, more often than not, technical individual contributors have very very little influence over the general direction of a product, let alone a business, and have a very well-understood (and, in my opinion, low) salary cap. Job hopping helps with ensuring that your compensation doesn't stray too far off from market rate, but this only brings you closer to the proverbial gl…

That's one of the reasons I got out of programming, was the salary ceiling. Sure, your first job hop as a programmer will probably get you a 20% or so increase! That gets your hopes up. Then your next one will be only 10% or so, and by the time you're 20 years into your career, you're barely getting any pay raises by changing company.

And if you think that changes by just being a different kind of individual contributor, you're probably wrong. You will still hit a salary cap even if you go into project management or product management--often at a lower $$$ figure than as a programmer. Maybe that changes when you get into people management--I don't know.

If you want to break through that ceiling, you need to have a position that includes a path to significant ownership. That's why bankers and lawyers have a path to becoming partners in the firm, and doctors have a path to private practice. A handful of worthless stock options at a startup doesn't count.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#297

Post by kazinator » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

I will always be a programmer, no matter what. My regret is only about not being richer, that's all.

I don't want another kind of job; I want a shitload of money, so I can code whatever I want all day long, until I drop dead at the TTY prompt.

Plus do a ton of cycling, running, guitar playing and such.

Regret over not having tried this job or that seems misplaced to me. If the job you're missing out on could be done as a hobby, do it as a hobby. If you think management looks like fun, then you can volunteer in some non-profit or volunteer organization; you will then have something to manage. If that doesn't cure the regret over not having tried management, then you have to be honest with yourself: it's really about the money.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#298

Post by devonkim » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

bucma wrote: post #163

dcw303 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still coding after almost 20 years in the job, and have no intention of stopping. I tried some other options - teacher, artist, entrepreneur. None of them give me the thrill that I get from programming. I still get locked into a flow where time shifts, and before I know it hours have passed. The only other activity that does that is Civ, and no-one is going to pay me to play that ;) If 10x assets is what drives y…

I think people who are picking up on the 10x assets thing are missing the point... Money can help you feel better about things when things in general aren't going well. What he says about missed opportunities, and working for idiotic management, that's the big thing here. You work your ass off, the management does dumb things, so the thing you're working on never really pays off, in money or fun. The fact that his si…

That sounds like the underlying problem at heart and is why I started down the path of being more customer facing (combined with getting quickly tired of all the nerd stereotype personalities as my immediate coworkers). The reward for incompetence and the perception-driven careers that is so common with professional managers is a slap in the face to everyone that not only are under them but to those that have to live with the consequences of their negligence. There are some that get kicked down, but typically they'll just find another sucker and continue on and on with self delusion that they've actually brought any value besides some vague association with some rich people to the company.

The problem that really bugs me as well as a lot of others is perhaps more deep-seated - that the popular kids from high school really do win anyway and become your bosses, and stories like Steve Wozniak or Bill Gates where smart, technical people can get ahead of the incompetent but very personable charlatans are becoming less and less common. That confidence / arrogance really are enough to succeed (many do work hard but so do the majority of technical workers too with almost none of the rewards) in the eyes of US society is a lingering thought.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#299

Post by wdmeldon » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

quaunaut wrote: post #232

ulkesh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that materialistic thinking and living certainly contributes to lack of savings/retirement assets. But so does simply having a family, especially as a single parent or when the spouse doesn't work. You might say "well, the spouse can go work," but it's rarely that simple considering the costs of child care and how it may weigh on the spouse's potential salary. Then factor in if the spouse can even get a highe…

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

I live in a place with a slightly higher COL and make about that with no benefits. I also have about 4 years experience. Some people just make shitty career choices or don't get lucky/unlucky.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#300

Post by Nemant » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

What is more depressing than OP is the HN crowd agreeing or saying how "programming is a dead job" and "it's easy" (see @okyup's comment).

These are what you call script kiddies who create CRUD apps and pretty UIs. I'll probably get downvoted by the hoards of script kiddies. I mean c'mon, these are the same kids ranting about how their world coming to an end with the whole left-pad fiasco.