Declassify on January 08, 2032. I wonder what kind of reaction the people of 2032 ( we who are still living that time ) would have had if they found out. Would they care? Worse reaction? Probably be used to gov. spying? It's a scary world.
XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
311–320 of 641 posts
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, if the NSA wanted to know what Stallman was up to, they'd apply the $5 wrench technique ( http://xkcd.com/538/ ). All the tin-foil in the world can't prevent them from getting what they want if you're suddenly a Person of Interest.
You're completely missing the point -- it's unfeasible, unpractical, and unproductive hitting millions of people on the head with $5 wrenches. This is the entire point -- they can do it easily with everyone now, they're not hitting people with wrenches -- that would invoke suspicion and retaliatory response that would curtail their legal powers to snoop around.
Maybe you're forgetting about the sorts of things that went on, are probably still going on, in various brutal military dictatorships around the world. Wrenches are just the start of what they do to people before they disappear them.
It isn't impossible to beat information out of millions of people. It's been done before and it'll be done again.
You say it'd invoke suspicion, but it wouldn't. If you're at the wrench phase of interrogation, you're already in a world where legal powers don't matter.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#313This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. I can see how they get HTTP information, since they would intercept at transit hubs - but how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? I was also looking for another unique ID that users ar…
>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…
I share your pet peeve and I can only assume that the "meh, no big surprise here" response stems from two things: wanting to sound just as knowledgeable as the person who brings up the topic (despite not having any new information); and at the same time justifying their complacency about the issue.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#314It seems this was meant to be declassified in 2032.. I guess by then they were hoping this would be so institutionalized and pervasive as to be the norm. Also I wonder to what extent this is really used to hunt terrorists down and how much of it is used to gain political or economic advantages over other countries.
Secrecy is like copyright - keeps on getting extended, or the documents just get "mislaid" long before the declassification date.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, if the NSA wanted to know what Stallman was up to, they'd apply the $5 wrench technique ( http://xkcd.com/538/ ). All the tin-foil in the world can't prevent them from getting what they want if you're suddenly a Person of Interest.
Is there no difference between specifically targeting a suspect and gaining physical access to their hardware vs. any number of government employees/contractors sitting at their desk browsing through anybody's data with little to no technical limits and little to no oversight? One of the slides literally says that users must be careful to and their query with another parameter to avoid running afoul of the law.
At this point the only difference is cost and scale. What the NSA is doing needs to be reeled in big-time, probably even shut down completely, but that doesn't mean being all tin-foil hat will somehow make you immune to what they're doing.
I'm sure they know everything they need to know about Stallman, just as they do about everyone else, apparently. Unless he's sitting in a cave writing EMACS source on goat hides, they'll have a window into his activities.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
> all traffic has to exit the VPN's company's endpoint, and at that point it can be captured. If the only thing they're dealing with is VPN's used as a private proxy for access to the public internet, you're right, and if so it's not so troubling (well, as in it is "only" just as troubling as having them access everyones web traffic). But arguably most VPN traffic is exiting inside private networks and are intended f…
Many corporate VPNs are secured via RSA SecurID and their keyfobs. Several years ago the SecurID source was compromised by hackers[1] and it was suspected the master seed/key was lost. Imagine if the NSA had access to that key -- it'd certainly be a juicy target for them. [1] http://dankaminsky.com/2011/06/09/securid/
The most reasonable assumption to make right now is to assume that the NSA does have the key. They may not, but but then again the recent revelations have been so absurdly horrifying that I wouldn't put it past them.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…
First of all: keep the staggering to a minimum. Second: realizing that "we should have known" and "none of this is new" isn't so much about reading news articles and being "plugged in", but rather having an understanding of how the Internet works. To oversimplify greatly, you're essentially playing a very precise game of telephone between around 10-20 different people, and usually about 1-3 different publicly-owned c…
The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us.
They have compeley misused the power we granted them in sacred trust. We should remove it from them at once. If this has become impossible, we need to know that as soon as we can.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Greenwald has timed this well. He put out enough information early on to give Snowden opponents enough rope with which to hang themselves. I have to wonder if the staggered deployment of the leak has anything to do with savvy, or more with his own need to digest what he's got as he works through it and reports as he goes. Either way, the story has more legs than past revelations, so I'm happy for that, and I certain…
Response from Greenwald in the comments: Q: Thanks for reporting this. I have to ask though, why is it that you are doling out this information now after the recent congressional inquiry into NSA spying and not earlier? A: We've published almost two dozen exclusive articles about NSA spying in the last 7 weeks, in multiple different countries around the world. Is that pace not fast enough? There are thousands upon th…
Thanks for the context Happer.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#319This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. I can see how they get HTTP information, since they would intercept at transit hubs - but how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? I was also looking for another unique ID that users ar…
Steve gibson has been covering how they can get at this stuff and what alternatives you have on the security now podcast.
https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm
Briefly summarized, the only way to do secure mail is pgp, the only way to do secure chat is to avoid all the main chat networks. And microsoft actively designs their systems to be easier to access for the NSA (far beyond their legal obligation) so you may assume that any microsoft product is a direct line to the NSA.
Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can be completely correct and still be a crackpot. What we need is strict limitations on what can and should be collected, and how it's used, plus better methods of securing what's being exchanged. For example, sending email as plain-text, leaving it on the server as plain-text, maybe that's a bad idea. The NSA isn't necessarily the only reason you'd do this. Foreign governments are going to take an interest in t…
"You can be completely correct and still be a crackpot." Not really. At that point, you are just using the term as an ad hominem in a childish attempt to ward off cognitive dissonance. You don't win an argument by calling the other guy a weirdo.
His observations are correct, but his conclusions are incorrect, just as people like Glenn Beck start out with facts and end up with paranoid delusions and fantasies.
I think Stallman's observations are valid, but his method of dealing with the implications of those observations are impractical, if not completely wrong.