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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#311

Post by tmnvix »

Havoc wrote: post #63

I think that may have come to pass if it hadn't been to the very top part of society capturing such a gigantic % of the new wealth generated. With more even distribution I could totally see more middle class deciding they've got a "good" life and no reason to work another 20 hours extra.

I agree. My own theory is that the benefits of higher productivity - that it was assumed would translate to more free time - have largely been captured by the financial sector by way of increased credit/debt servicing.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#312

Post by CodeSgt »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #277
CodeSgt wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people pay for art and music. I didn't say they weren't valuable, I said what you're trying to offer specifically may not be valuable. I know you think it's some incredible service that everybody wants, but have you considered that maybe it isn't?

Are you in the arts or a field adjacent to it, by chance?

That's not relevant to the discussion, if you have something you want to say then just say it. Don't try to ask me a question you think you know the answer to and then tell me my answer precludes me from having an opinion on the subject at hand.

This is one of the most common methods I see employed by bad-faith conversationalist and it's sickening. Your point should stand on it's own merit, not on your ability to invalidate the "oppositions" side.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#313

Post by drdec »

bombcar wrote: post #179
samhuk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicely written, but I don't fully understand your logic here. The bricklayer's wall in your comparison is precisely analogous to an "update" a developer has to do. The work is not complete for a bricklayer nor a software developer. Just as there is "one more revision or update" as you put it, there is always one more house to build walls for. What I think you may be feeling though, is that working on software sometim…

There's a satisfaction you get when you finish a house - there is something you can point to and say "that is done ". There's even a satisfaction with mopping a floor, it is clean now even though it will dirty again. Most programming doesn't have the first and only sometimes do you get the second. It'd be like building a house and finishing and immediately changing something on it, or fixing something that broke, for…

> It'd be like building a house and finishing and immediately changing something on it, or fixing something that broke, forever

So it would be like owning a house?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#314

Post by tboyd47 »

leobg wrote: post #207
Havoc wrote: post #63

I think that may have come to pass if it hadn't been to the very top part of society capturing such a gigantic % of the new wealth generated. With more even distribution I could totally see more middle class deciding they've got a "good" life and no reason to work another 20 hours extra.

I’m not sure about that. It just seems like too easy an excuse. Just to damn convenient to say, “If only the rich people...”. I fear that the reason that applies much more often is that most of our energy is being spent on doing the wrong things, or being spent on competition with others. Think of somebody building a web scraper: They are spending hours or days building something whose purpose is essentially to overc…

I signed in just to upvote this, so let me ask you this, how do you avoid it?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#315

Post by CodeSgt »

hansword wrote: post #256
CodeSgt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it occurred to you that the lack of people willing to pay for what you're trying to offer may be indicative that it's not quite as valuable as you perceive it to be? I don't think it's work specifically that's tied to morality, but production. If someone is obviously consuming more than they're producing, then they're going to get negative attention. In 2022 it's not always clear exactly how much someone is produ…

> It's only people who are actually lazy and not doing anything useful with their lives that are looked down upon, and rightfully so. Your view is manifestly incorrect. There are so many groups of people that are looked down upon, what you describe is just a tiny tiny subset of these. If you are grasping to find an example, that shows a great deal about your position in life. (If you still struggling, start with sex…

I obviously wasn't saying the only prejudice in the world exists against lazy people and that no other group of people were ever looked down upon. You've got to use context clues before getting all fired up like this. The was in response to how we purportedly "tie work to morality". It was obviously meant as something closer to:

> It's only people who are actually lazy and not doing anything useful with their lives that are looked down upon *for not working a typically job.*, and rightfully so

Really you should try to avoid taking things intentionally out of context and getting yourself worked up over, it's not healthy.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#316

Post by upsidesinclude »

feet wrote: post #285
saiya-jin wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, giving up so easily on problem so obvious is usually done by people who are well off and actually have to lose, or those who for some basic reason don't understand they are also the ones getting fucked over (ie patriotism can push folks easily in very stupid positions and in the same time make them feel good about their actions). If you traveled a bit around the world, maybe you could see that nothing is bin…

Its evidenced by many comments here. People are well off and the system has worked for them so we see the attitude of "it's working for me, fuck everyone else who didn't work the way I did or wasn't born into the right circumstances"

People that have never been outside of the US think they are living rough. They also like to compare their living with only the most egalitarian societies in the world instead of 'the world'. Odds are pretty great that you live in comfort everyday. Your concerns then get to be centered around all the material things you lack. And, odds are great you've never had to sacrifice much of anything. Nothing real. You would never commit to working in a place you didn't want to go or taking a bad schedule because you, right now, want everything. You deserve it, don't you.

That's the attitude that, unfortunately, will also be found in America.

So, for those that have worked, have sacrificed, we aren't interested in hearing the solutions posed from a homogenous society of one distinct culture and obvious problems with irregularities or deviations from the norm.... Here's looking at you Nords

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#317

Post by Apocryphon »

eric4smith wrote: post #252
Hellbanevil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I agree with is people got the leasure time and loved it. Most people don't enjoy their job, or jobs. Most people don't like commuting rediculious distances just to make rent, and eat. Most people realalized during Covid they might have been happier. The virtual/physical infrastructure wouldn't have been built with work from home. This is our first experiment with working from home, and it went pretty…

Who will feed the slackers? You see, that’s the problem that you conveniently skip.

In the U.S. at the beginning of the 19th century some 70 percent of the labor force worked on the farm. Today 3 percent not only feeds the population but also produces a large surplus for export.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#318

Post by ako »

neuralRiot wrote: post #294
rakejake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

Does that makes us happier? I believe that’s what matters in the end and having more spare time not always equate to more happiness, surprisingly, if you look at statistics the more developed countries report lower happiness scores. Happiness is a trip, not a destination.

Huh? Top 20 happiest countries are developed countries according to this list: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1225047/ranking-of-happi...

On a personal note, yes more spare time makes me more happy, more time spend doing nice things with family, more time to sport. Nothing makes more more happy than a day on the sea windsurfing, kitesurfing or windfoiling.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#319

Post by pvg »

imbnwa wrote: post #281
briantakita wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you respond by being hyperbolic...If you want to ban me, go ahead. I have no intention in creating a "flamewar". I'm not sure what exactly I'm "destroying" here so go ahead & do whatever you see fit...As far as I'm concerned, I made a statement of truth with historical analogy. Is history now verboten as an "over-the-top flamewar"? You have proven my point of group coercion & why it is dangerous for individuals to…

FYI 'house negroe' was a rare occurrence in the Antebellum South. Majority of plantations weren't big enough to support distinct labor pools, slaves largely and for the most part rotated tasks depending on age, gender, season, etc (the gender aspect is also why 'house negroe' is meant to suggest an effeminized Black male, which is an entirely other problematic discussion). Never mind the much higher rate of sexual as…

a similar distortion

Uncle Tom's cabin has been lauded and critiqued since the day it was published so it's a little bit of a stretch to call this a 'distortion'.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#320

Post by mettamage »

throwaway98797 wrote: post #210
mettamage wrote: post #71

If I only had free time then: I would meet a lot of people Study and teach many things for fun Travel wherever Experience many different things Play a lot Alas, I work. I can hack it a bit by remote working and doing a 4 day work week. I have to give up playing and a studying/teaching for that. I don’t understand how people can say that people need directions and therefore need to work. I need the exact opposite and…

you’re under 30 and it shows repeated failures makes lack of pain the goal vs. pursuing something great Now, get off my lawn.

Older than 30, easily. You were wrong. Accept it, learn from it. Do your best to be more empirical next time or to speak more in a form of probability and by highlighting your assumptions. At least, if you want to make more accurate statements that are actually verifiably true. I think my approach outlined above would help.

If you don’t, then I don’t really see the point of your comment.

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