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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

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Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#311

Post by dillondoyle »

rsj_hn wrote: post #200
daveguy wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair. Your drug use can't put me in the ICU.

People trying to steal to get drugs could. People high on drugs certainly could. A lot of Breaking and Entering, for example, is to obtain money to feed a drug habit. For the person doing the stealing, all they care about is the cost of the drug, so plans to regulate and tax meth, well, don't necessarily improve that situation.

I personally am for this totally legalization but also giving it out for free. or better yet just have a blanket small minimum universal income so no one can decry that we're paying for someone's addiction.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#312

Post by dillondoyle »

e40 wrote: post #42
monkmartinez wrote: post #31

The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare. It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are o…

> Talk to your kids and tell them not to use any pills, not even once. Can you elaborate? I have no idea what this is about. I thought meth was smoked.

You can smoke, eat, or inject. Could boof it too ;)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#313

Post by Broken_Hippo »

monkmartinez wrote: post #31

The reason Meth use is going up is not due to Meth itself. It counter balances the effects of Fentanyl. I regularly go to Fentanyl overdoses where the bystanders tell me they ran out of "G" or "Glass" and simply overdid it with the "M30's"... Its a fucking nightmare. It used to be "meth" users would say..."At least I am not a dope junky using H." Heroin users would say... "At least I am not a tweaker." Now they are o…

We don't have enough Narcan to counter a bad batch of "M30" pills. Talk to your kids and tell them not to use any pills, not even once.

Because kids do what their parents say? I mean, it might be the cynic in me from the years of DARE lies, but I don't think this is enough. Most parents won't have an honest conversation about it: You know, talk about the effects and the good parts alongside the risks you take when you get it.

They won't drive you to safer things.

And an amount of them are going to try it nonetheless: An amount aren't going to be kids, either.

And this is the real reason I support full legalisation and controlled production - even of a lot of drugs that I wouldn't do. We can more reasonably assure there aren't bad batches of pills. We can more easily realize when folks are using regularly and offer (free) help. We can more easily try to sway folks to things that harm less. And we can research ways to do this more easily. It isn't perfect, but the war on drugs definitely isn't either.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#314

Post by crate_barre »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #87
dynm wrote: post #2

Around a week ago, I came across this link here on HN that suggested that there's a new form of meth: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28938888 The theory is that new meth is based on a synthesis using a chemical called P2P rather than the old synthesis that used ephedrine. There are claims that this new form of meth is chemically different in some what that started creating schizophrenia around 2017. However, wh…

From what I've read of schizophrenia[1] it is highly inherited and unlikely that any drug would cause it. A sufficient amount of stress is known to trigger or quicken the emergence of schizophrenia in people already predisposed to it. When it comes to studying this, you have to separate out: * The high rates of drug abuse by people with mental illness. * The correlation drug use with other sources of stress. Drug use…

You are severely underestimating the power of these drugs. Anyways, most people do and usually find out the hard way.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#315

Post by Broken_Hippo »

Lammy wrote: post #181
perardi wrote: post #130

Bit of a tangential rant: meth is actually truly really bad, and I wish our drug education growing up hadn’t painted this nebulous concept of “drugs”, because there’s gradations of harm. I’m approaching 40. (Ugh, I hate to admit that.) I grew up during the D.A.R.E. era. Just Say No. Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue. “Drugs” were this boogeyman, and whatever they were, they would turn you into a junkie instantly. I hav…

D.A.R.E. did a great job of teaching us that any drug user has made a conscious choice toward moral failure. Couple that with knowledge of which groups were most heavily impacted by the drug epidemics of the 1980s and you can see an esoteric goal for D.A.R.E.

"D.A.R.E. did a great job of teaching us that any drug user has made a conscious choice toward moral failure."

I don't think it did this. I'm in my early 40's and grew up with DARE. When we were younger, they really leaned into the danger factor and pretty much said you'll hurt everyone you know.

And then, you realize they are liars. I didn't have to actually do drugs to see that. Why would you learn that is a moral failure from lies? I didn't even worry about those sorts of things when I was a preteen/young teen, honestly.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#316

Post by KingMachiavelli »

rsj_hn wrote: post #254
kragen wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we aren't talking about plans to regulate meth; it's already very heavily regulated. We're talking about plans to partly deregulate meth, which we can expect to significantly reduce the cost of the drug, from the US$50 or more per gram described in this article down to US$1 per gram or less like other synthetic drugs with similarly simple synthesis routes. The US$50 a gram isn't the cost of operating the reactors…

So the way it worked out with marijuana is the legal stuff is a lot more expensive than the street stuff. Maybe it would be different with meth, but I'm not sure why. https://www.inverse.com/article/39899-recreational-weed-cali... Basically the whole legal drug movement is targeted at non-addicts to let them pay a premium for a sanitary, legal, controlled experience. The political justifications for the movement are…

This is a very CA specific problem cause by the fact that legalization is done at the state level and not federal.

Illegal CA cannabis production supplied a huge fraction of total US demand.

Legalization worked in that it is now harder to smuggle illegal cannabis to surrounding states legalizing (and there might be a stronger push to actually find and catch smugglers now).

Also in a high tax state such as CA a lot of 'black market' prices might be skewed by individual growers selling to their immediate friends, etc. This would not translate to other drugs because they don't grow on uh weeds.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#317

Post by crate_barre »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #293
forgotmyoldname wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should happen when someone violates the legal protocols in which they're controlled? Meth is already legal, in actuality. It's just controlled in production and distribution and only available by prescription. There are millions in America taking legal meth right now.

Adderall is not meth. It's close - but it's not meth. And meth isn't that bad unless you smoke it, especially in huge dosages - and the vast, vast majority of Adderall users are not smoking it - or taking massive doses.

A substantial portion of Adderral users won’t admit they are dependent because they need it for their job (tautology). Who would want to admit this? You might as well call up people during the 2016 election and ask them who they are voting for (they all said not Trump).

Can’t fool serious drug users, takes one to know one.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#318

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #293
forgotmyoldname wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should happen when someone violates the legal protocols in which they're controlled? Meth is already legal, in actuality. It's just controlled in production and distribution and only available by prescription. There are millions in America taking legal meth right now.

Adderall is not meth. It's close - but it's not meth. And meth isn't that bad unless you smoke it, especially in huge dosages - and the vast, vast majority of Adderall users are not smoking it - or taking massive doses.

[deleted]

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#319

Post by eru »

xyzzyz wrote: post #194
mjevans wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only they'd legalize, tax, and regulate the meth... We could get our real cold symptom treatments back as true OTCs and stop wasting so much time chasing petty criminals. It would also help identify drug addicts and get them help before problems become bad.

If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses. That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. Of course, one might…

> If they did that, the consumption would only go up, resulting in even more overdoses.

I believe the former. People like taking drugs after all.

But what makes you think the latter is likely?

(Anecdotally, from what I can tell American teenagers seems more likely to bing drink hard spirits than German teenagers who can legally enjoy a pint at the local pub.)

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#320

Post by 01100011 »

cwkoss wrote: post #146

RE: Quantity section. I wonder if the pharmaceutical amphetamines and/or novel 'research chemical' amphetamines metabolize into the same compounds that are being quantified in sewage. Are they detecting 'meth' specifically or amphetamines generally? > only $1k per pound now. Wow that's crazy. An equivalent quantity of generic adderall would cost ~$20k. Meth is effectively at commodity-level prices, if true - the drug…

Anecdotal tidbit: father in law was a casual meth user for decades until life stress pushed him to start shooting it up around 1996. That's when the real breakdown started (paranoid hallucinations and fantastical delusions). There's something to be said for dosages and delivery mechanisms, which to some degree are driven by culture, pricing and availability.
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