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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#311

Post by pmontra »

userbinator wrote: post #251
otterley wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft isn’t going to do that.

...yet. Remember all the talk about "Windows as a service"? Given what's happened so far, I fully expect them to try something like that at some point. "We only offer subscriptions of the latest version, and your current hardware doesn't meet our minimum requirements, so you'll have to replace it to continue using Windows." Maybe it'll trigger a mass exodus to Linux --- or perhaps more likely, back to older and crack…

> "Windows as a service"

A computer able to run only a RDP client able to connect only to a Windows VM licensed to you, running on Azure with every autoupdate turned on /s

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#312

Post by Havoc »

fomine3 wrote: post #293
mixedCase wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average user won't notice the difference in a laptop screen unless told. What's more, they won't be using a laptop (let alone desktops) on the first place, they'll use a smart TV or TV stick. For whatever it's worth, they don't support it on Windows for most of the users who do watch it there, since you need to use Edge or the Windows Store App on a 7th gen Intel CPU on an HDCP 2.2 compliant setup, and I'm pretty…

You don't need HDCP 2.2 / specific CPU for 1080p but Edge is the only requirement.

Not the person you’re responding to but there def was a HDCP of some sort - might be for 4K

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#313

Post by Havoc »

fordsmith wrote: post #259
Havoc wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux distros are fundamentally more useful computer systems Last I checked I can’t play 1080p Netflix on them so I’d say the above is questionable for the average user. Big fan too but the year of the Linux desktop is still a way off

I'm pretty sure that is because of DRM, right? It's not that you _cant_ do it, but they _wont_ allow you. Ofc, there are otherr ways to achieve your goal.

>I'm pretty sure that is because of DRM, right?

It is yes. Doesn't matter for the average user though - it either works or it is broken.

Technical users might give it a pass on freedom & principles grounding, but not average users.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#314

Post by SSLy »

Goz3rr wrote: post #86
sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

>the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations I've seen people theorize that it's because of the availability of UMIP instructions

Can't be true as Coffe Lake doesn't seem to support it yet win11 will work on that

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#315

Post by ChrisSD »

lupire wrote: post #247
ChrisSD wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has made no secret of how long its hardware support lasts. If anything, the total of six years is longer than the Surface average of ~5. The Windows 11 announcement changes nothing in this regard. Edit: The first gen Surface Studio was also about five years (2016 - 2021).

It still absolutely terrible.

Ok but Microsoft's 4-6 years of support for their hardware has nothing to do with Windows 11.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#316

Post by gambiting »

eric__cartman wrote: post #60
ehsankia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

Exactly. I have a both of these actually lol.

Old HP Compaq 8200 that I use as a NAS, media server and to host an occasional Linux VM, with an i5-2400. Running Windows 10 it receives all important security updates and runs absolutely fine, despite being 10 years old. I have plans to replace it by 2025, because.....why would I? It doesn't need any more power to do any of these jobs that I mentioned.

And I actually have a Core2Duo laptop running Windows 10, with an SSD and 8GB of ram it runs "ok". Not amazing or anything, but fast enough to basically work as a browsing/YouTube machine.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#317

Post by majewsky »

strombofulous wrote: post #300
cpeterso wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an example of just how many people don't care about EOL'd operating systems: Microsoft's mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in January 2015 (and paid "Extended Security Updates" service ended in January 2020) and yet 21% of Firefox users are still running Windows 7: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware#goto-os-and-arch...

Only 1.97% of steam users use windows 7, so I don't think we can assume either demographic is a fair representation of all users https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...

Steam users are not a "fair representation of all users" either. The gamer demographic is biased towards newer and faster hardware than the average user, and the newest greatest hardware is only going to be supported on the latest OS version(s).

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#318

Post by rasz »

If you are a gamer and think you can stay on Win10 think again. Microsoft already announced DirectStorage arbitrarily Windows 11 exclusive. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/gaming-on-windows-11-...

There is a slight chance they might back down, like they did with DirectX 12 on Windows 7 support after huge backlash and pressure from Blizzard. That one took 4 years of slow win10 adoption (2015-2019) and angry game studios.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#319

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

pmontra wrote: post #311
userbinator wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...yet. Remember all the talk about "Windows as a service"? Given what's happened so far, I fully expect them to try something like that at some point. "We only offer subscriptions of the latest version, and your current hardware doesn't meet our minimum requirements, so you'll have to replace it to continue using Windows." Maybe it'll trigger a mass exodus to Linux --- or perhaps more likely, back to older and crack…

> "Windows as a service" A computer able to run only a RDP client able to connect only to a Windows VM licensed to you, running on Azure with every autoupdate turned on /s

A similar scenario is not impossible. Somehow it has become acceptable to use a always-online workflows. There are complete lines of products that won't work at all if you're not online, and some will switch off after a certain time (like Adobe). There is an enormous push in that direction from all industries. People give in without any resistance. It's become normal and acceptable that pieces of code on all your devices connect to different services and send data you have no idea about. If an app stops working because you lose the internet connection, somehow it's not the problem of the app but yours. So I can imagine a scenario similar to the one you describe in a decade or two.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#320

Post by majewsky »

numpad0 wrote: post #59
romwell wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soooo, the people who can't install Windows 11 will continue to not care? I don't understand the logic of your response. It's not like Microsoft will brick machines not eligible for Win 11

By cutting off at 8th Gen and TPM 1.2+2.0, they’re cutting off a lot of current and high end systems built by enthusiasts , while supporting far slower and inferior PCs. That’s the problem. No one’s arguing they’re chasing off cheap Celeron, they’re trying to get rid of even some Threadrippers and multi-socket setups, that could have 128GB or more of RAM, for “performance”.

> they’re cutting off a lot of current and high end systems built by enthusiasts, while supporting far slower and inferior PCs.

No they don't. All those systems may not have hardware TPM, but they support firmware TPM, which is enough to check the checkbox.

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