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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#191

Post by FridayoLeary »

ChrisSD wrote: post #187
JorgeGT wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: Microsoft will happily sell you today a $3500 Surface Studio 2 with a W11-unsupported i7-7820: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...

Fun fact: the Surface Studio 2 is fully supported until October 2, 2024 with no need to replace the OS! Not bad for a niche device released in 2018.

Selling an extremely expensive piece of hardware while acknowledging that you intend on making it obsolete in 4 years time, for arbitrary reasons sounds pretty bad to me. And who cares if it's niche.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#192

Post by einr »

andix wrote: post #118

Just to put it in a perspective: an iMac bought in January 2019 (kaby lake) is not supported by Windows 11. That’s just crazy. If Microsoft will continue like that, Windows will be the new Android and you can’t invest into new hardware, as it may be garbage already two years later.

Ahem.

You can buy an Intel iMac today, new from Apple, that will not run Windows 11.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac-imac/21.5-inch

Yes, Apple still sells an iMac with a 7th generation Dual-Core Intel i5. For $1099. No, you should not buy one, but... there it is.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#193

Post by mulmen »

ehsankia wrote: post #34
eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Just checked Newegg. I built my current PC in November of 2010. It has a Core 2 Quad. Runs great.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#194

Post by vetinari »

floatboth wrote: post #157
alkonaut wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood me: are we assuming that the Microsoft list of supported processors represents all the CPUs that can run Windows 11, rather than the list that Microsoft supports (meaning they promise it works, promise it will continue to work) These at least to me seem like completely different things (and have been in the past). As an example: Windows 10 is not officially supported on Sandy Bridge CPUs like the i7…

This looks like a list of processors they *approve for OEMs* that build *new* computers with Windows pre-installed. Everyone is acting completely ridiculously thinking that there will be actual cpuid checks.

> The specification defines the Windows minimum hardware requirements necessary to:

> Boot and run Windows

> Update and service Windows

> Provide a baseline user experience that is comparable with similar devices and computers

It says nowhere that it is for OEMs, this is not the Windows Logo program which is for OEMs; and in fact, some of the CPUs mentioned are not on the market anymore.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#195

Post by vetinari »

floatboth wrote: post #161
vetinari wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure they'll loosen the restriction of having TPM enabled. That seems to be the only limiting factor. They've added restrictions since: 8th gen Intel Core or 2nd gen AMD Zen required.

That's just some list in the documentation, mostly intended for OEMs building new computers with pre-installed Windows. NO WAY there will be literal cpuid checks excluding earlier processors.

This is not the Windows Logo program, which is intended for OEMs.

There do not need to be any CPUID checks to exclude processors; just a random update will not work and Microsoft will shrug it off, well, that CPU is not on the supported list anyway.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#196

Post by swiley »

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

>sort of reasonable I guess

What part of that is reasonable exactly? As far as I can tell the TPM only weakens security by storing the keys in a separate computer, once there's an exploit with that someone physically attacking your computer could easily exfiltrate keys where they couldn't if you're just typing a passphrase into EG cryptsetup.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#197

Post by ChrisSD »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #191
ChrisSD wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: the Surface Studio 2 is fully supported until October 2, 2024 with no need to replace the OS! Not bad for a niche device released in 2018.

Selling an extremely expensive piece of hardware while acknowledging that you intend on making it obsolete in 4 years time, for arbitrary reasons sounds pretty bad to me. And who cares if it's niche.

Microsoft has made no secret of how long its hardware support lasts. If anything, the total of six years is longer than the Surface average of ~5.

The Windows 11 announcement changes nothing in this regard.

Edit: The first gen Surface Studio was also about five years (2016 - 2021).

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#198

Post by swiley »

1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

A lot of people are probably happy to not have their computer taken away for an hour every other week.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#199

Post by einr »

cdolan wrote: post #41

Could you not argue the exact opposite point with the same underlying facts? Meaning “requiring modern low power CPU’s is a great thing for the environment”? And how reasonable is it to say these PCs will be immediately trashed? Seems like a straw man argument - I know plenty of schools that will happily run Win10 until 2030

Meaning “requiring modern low power CPU’s is a great thing for the environment”?

https://www.networkworld.com/article/2229029/computer-factor...

"Study finds 70% of the energy a typical laptop will consume during its life span is used in manufacturing the computer"

Also, at least on the performance/gaming side, Intel's latest chips are huge, hot-running power hogs. Since they are so far behind in process technology, they've been compensating by making huge dies and pushing the TDP. It's pretty bad.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#200

Post by BuckRogers »

Zevis wrote: post #151
andyjansson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. You're saying this from a position of privilege. There are a lot of people that don't enjoy the same financial security that you and I do that will be affected immensely by this. I know a few and this is not news in their favor.

Working in PC repair, a majority of my customers can't just up and buy a new PC just because Microsoft arbitrarily decides that whatever they have isn't good enough, even though it has sufficient performance.

And they don't have to. They can keep using the PC they have until 2025. After that, there's always Linux Mint.
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