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Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#311

Post by cowpewter »

jokoon wrote: post #151
pbadenski wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of empty fear mongering comment is unhelpful at best. It's a McDonalds of a comment. What's a lot of people? Why are psychedelics so special compared to anything else (sugar, Facebook, gambling). "It doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common" - what does this even mean? "Common" based on what criterion? How should our behaviour as a society change based on your comment?

Are you comparing psychedelics to sugar and social media? Unless psilocybin is thoroughly tested and validated as a treatment that is as safe as SSRI, I don't think it's really worthwhile to jump into the psilocybin train.

SSRIs are notoriously NOT safe. In younger people, they often increase suicidal ideation. Even in adults, there is a very dangerous period when you first start taking them where suddenly you have more energy, but you are still massively depressed. People die because before they were so depressed they couldn't even take action to suicide, and the drugs give them just enough of a lift that they can.

Apart from that, there's the massive list of side-effects, many of them extremely common.

Complete loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, or worse, your libido is unchanged but you completely lose the ability to orgasm.

Insomnia, cause that's what a depressed person needs, even less sleep and more time for rumination in bed.

Akathisia, which is an uncontrollable need to move your body, think restless leg syndrome but it's your entire body. You literally cannot sit still.

Less life-destroying but still very obnoxious: increased sweating, dry mouth (which can ruin your teeth if you don't manage it with biotene or gum or something), blurred vision, headaches, the list goes on.

This is without even mentioning the risk of serotonin syndrome yet, which can straight up literally kill you if you don't make it to a hospital. It happens when your serotonin level is too high, and can cause seizures, fever, arrhythmia, or death.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#312

Post by scruple »

randomopining wrote: post #278
scruple wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very bad trip, my last trip, and it took me years to recover. That was > 2 decades ago. It's my opinion that we need to recognize that these substances have the power to modify us in extremely powerful, unknown ways. And we need to create a safe environment (how? I do not know, probably regulation, but after seeing how California is handling "legal weed," I am not holding my breath) for people to use these su…

Did you prepare and also surrender to the experience? I think if you give in and accept, you can’t lose.

I wasn't as prepared as I should've been, no, but I did surrender to it. That didn't, however, make it any less terrifying or traumatic (or less embarrassing and humiliating in the time after).

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#313

Post by simonswords82 »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #209
pbadenski wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of empty fear mongering comment is unhelpful at best. It's a McDonalds of a comment. What's a lot of people? Why are psychedelics so special compared to anything else (sugar, Facebook, gambling). "It doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common" - what does this even mean? "Common" based on what criterion? How should our behaviour as a society change based on your comment?

Psychedelics can definitely trigger or exacerbate mental health issues. A few years ago my group of friends lost someone to schizophrenia after he started micro-dosing LSD daily. I've tried many of these substances, and know people who have gone a lot further, so I'm not speaking out of ignorance here. There are risks to these things, and it's not a positive experience for everyone. Giving people a warning about that…

It's such a shame because I've seen people lose their minds on psychedelics and the problem is they just can't handle being out of control. If their view on the world is in any way distorted - they cannot handle it. And that's sad because life is ultimately about perception and changing your perception is usually a good thing.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#314

Post by degrews »

queuep wrote: post #135
fighterpilot wrote: post #117

> In a phase 2, double-blind , randomized, controlled trial It seems like you can't blind the participants in this case? It should be obvious if you're getting the treatment because psilocybin is a hallucinogen, unless they're giving such a small dose that it reliably doesn't cause any hallucinations? This is important because most (70-80%) of the effect of existing anti-depressants is known to be placebo, and there'…

I'm not an expert in this, but if they gave 25mg psilocybin (not purified) you would probably not hallucinate (of my readings in the reddit posted in another comment here). But I'm not sure if its possibly to purify it, and I'm not sure what effects 25mg of "purified" psilocybin would have.

Note that is 25mg of psilocybin, not mushroom. Dried mushrooms contain about 1% psilocybin, so an equivalent dose of dried mushrooms would be around 2.5g, an amount that's definitely high enough to cause hallucinations. Not sure if this is what you mean by purified vs non purified.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#315

Post by surround »

simonswords82 wrote: post #7

I have a friend who has experienced magic mushrooms recreationally about half a dozen times in her 20s. After each trip she reported feeling clear headed and more mindful - she described it as though her mind's harddrive had been defragmented. Fast forward 10 years and that same friend felt low during lockdown over the past 12 months. After reading up online she decided to try microdosing mushrooms rather than the ma…

She might have been experiencing the effects of placebo.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26324219

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#316

Post by GordonS »

mrwww wrote: post #103
Gatsky wrote: post #15

The study was just published in the most prestigious medical journal in the world [1]. Whatever you think of the study, this is rather significant. If you told me even 2 years ago there would be a randomised trial of magic mushrooms in NEJM, I would not have believed it for even a second. One point not to miss is that they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59. Nevertheless, I consider the…

2 doses of psilocybin, vs 6 weeks of SSRI's..! They also seem to cite a big difference in lasting happiness, altough that wasnt the focus of the study.

And some folks have a really tough time coming off SSRIs too, with bad withdrawal symptoms (extreme anxiety, panic attacks, tremor, hallucinations, memory loss, confusion...) even when tapering over several weeks.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#317

Post by GordonS »

standardUser wrote: post #219
junon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this being downvoted? Studies are great, but let's not act like drugs are suddenly safe to use in all cases. I'm sure the studies didn't conclude that. Be pro-shrooms but don't act like they're safe in every case. Education is required before partaking in anything, let alone shrooms.

Can we point to any data showing that mushrooms or acid (for example) are more dangerous than, say, a coronavirus vaccine or driving a car? Because generally speaking, unless something is concretely documented as dangerous we don't just assume it is dangerous "because". Especially when that "because" is because of a well-documented, decades-long propaganda campaign by the federal government.

I used to use mushrooms from time to time in my youth, and had some great experiences (which I've written about on HN before).

As far as danger, I think that, as with many things, it's about maturity, education and harm reduction.

I had a single bad experience with mushrooms, and it put me off ever taking them again. I was too young and immature (something like 15/16), and took about 5x more than I'd ever taken before. I can see now that it was obviously very stupid. If I'd been in a different location at the time, god only knows what could have happened to me - I'd say that, if abused, mushrooms can be far, far more dangerous than driving a car.

But - if the science backs it up, psylocilin could do amazing things for those with depression. And furthermore, sensible people can have amazing experiences. So as long as education and harm reduction is in place, I'm all for it.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#318

Post by GordonS »

vermilingua wrote: post #80
acchow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way were their minds ruined?

Any psychadelics (and I think cannabis as well, but much more rarely) can cause a psychotic break, which can’t always be recovered from. It seems to be more prevalent if there is a family history of psychosis. No source, just anecdata, the circles I run in.

Not exactly what you're referring to, but after a 15 year-or-so break from cannabis (I used a lot in my youth, starting around 12YO), I've found that I can't use it any more - it gives me the most horrible anxiety! I persisted, but was close to panic attacks, and gave up on it.

It's actually pretty annoying, as I have a health condition that it might help with, and furthermore I used to really enjoy recreational use.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#319

Post by GordonS »

varispeed wrote: post #205
arcticbull wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, for weed maybe. But psychedelics are very different. They're really, genuinely not addictive -- probably because they're not "fun." In fact, they're exhausting. You may feel a lot better after, the experience may be fascinating, but you're in absolutely no hurry to do it again. The whole thing lasts a few hours, but literally feels like months, with numerous epochs along the way. It's not like the kind of hollo…

I don't think that it is a "fun" factor that keeps people addicted. It's the fear of withdrawals.

There are really two different things here: physical dependence (which can mean withdrawals on cessation), and psychological dependence (commonly referred to as "addiction").

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#320

Post by GordonS »

whalesalad wrote: post #158

For those curious: you can cultivate your own at home. It’s 100% legal to purchase psilocybin spores online in many states. I just had to throw out a grow due to contamination - super frustrating setback - but I’m determined to produce a healthy harvest.

I grew up in rural Scotland, and every Autumn the countryside seemed to explode with mushrooms - even the play park next door to my house was covered in them! After several years, the local council started spraying the park with something to kill them, but there were still an abundance available elsewhere.
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