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What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

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Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#311

Post by [deleted] »

fxtentacle wrote: post #253
franga2000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

There's also no other developed country that has drug problems like the US. If you stop treating people with respect, they need some way to cope. First painkillers, then the opioid crisis, now alcohol-related deaths are on the rise. And I recently read that the new hip thing are LSD nose spray trips timed to your lunch break.

[deleted]

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#313

Post by maxerickson »

franga2000 wrote: post #199
2rsf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we can, that's how it works in Sweden and AFAIK in many other European countries. Tips are not expected, and are meant only for extraordinary service. The base pay is decent and so are the benefits like vacation, pension etc.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

This is pedantic, but service workers in the US are generally payed the legal minimum wage.

The distinction is that a different law exists for that category of workers, not that they aren't paid legal wages.

Other countries do make exceptions to their pay rules. For instance, younger people that are likely to be working temporarily may be excluded from benefits rules.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#314

Post by maxerickson »

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

Which first principle is opposed to taking VC bucks?

Because that's the model. Let's make a story good enough to be funded and then pay ourselves with that money. The business just has to appear to be a good enough bet to sell it to the money.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#315

Post by fapjacks »

blondin wrote: post #244
xapata wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was until my $1k car repair.

wow, how did you manage to get a $1k car repair? hope you sold the car!

Those repairs are the deeply-embedded, systemic problems that creep up and ambush you one day before work, forcing you to decide between a $1k car repair -- often the barest minimum-cost repair you can find and negotiate -- or forking over a few times that much for an entirely different car to drive.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#316

Post by eru »

Nursie wrote: post #293
eru wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany didn't even have a minimum wage until fairly recently. The Scandinavian countries don't have a minimum wage either, see eg https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/nordic-countri... Neither does Switzerland. What's with the American obsession with outlawing poor people's jobs? (My adopted home country, one of the richest places in the world and one of the best places to live, doesn't have a minimum wage…

The minimum wage ensures that those 'poor people' can afford to eat. The countries you mention don't need minimum wages set because they have other mechanisms or even just social norms that ensure nobody is having to work 8 jobs to try to feed their kids.

If you want poor people to be able to eat, give them money.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#317

Post by eru »

jakobegger wrote: post #294
eru wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should have been a bit more clear. When customers tip, and total wages in the tipped jobs are thus higher than in the non-tipped alternatives, workers will change jobs until expected total wages are about equal. What works in other countries, eg Japan or Australia, is that different social norms lead to much less total tipping. But you can't transform eg American into Japan or Australia at a whim. It's up t…

I don't think the system will fix itself by banning tips. That doesn't help anyone. What society should do is require a decent base pay (regardless of tip). That way I know that my server can make ends meet if I tip them or not, and tipping them becomes a curtesy, not a necessity.

Why wouldn't banning tipping help anyone? It would certainly help the patrons who no longer have to agonize. And it would bring more dignity.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#318

Post by fapjacks »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #125
marcell wrote: post #30

> “These orders don’t pay for our expenses or our time. We actually lose money when we take those orders. If I pick up an order that is 10 miles away and deliver it 6 miles I’m traveling 16 miles for a $3 order — so I have lost money. I’m in the negative when I account for gas, wear and tear, and other expenses. Not to mention my time.” This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/h…

I was surprised to learn recently - and it may just be one of the rideshare companies in one country, or it may be more widespread - that the driver may not be told the final destination until they have accepted and started the ride. So you might keep doing loops back to the airport (or a good restaurant precinct) because most of the jobs are OK; but it’s only when I hop in the car for a $10 ride to the next suburb t…

Actually, the rideshare folks usually (depending of course on location and personal preference) are after the airport drives. It's the onesie-twosie "bar-hopping" short trips that they don't like.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#319

Post by Spooky23 »

break_the_bank wrote: post #277
kragen wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to compete with DoorDash using that model, you will either have to charge much higher prices than they do, or you will lose money on every transaction. Either way you will go out of business as long as DoorDash or similar companies are able to compete with you.

This assumes that door dash is able to maintain it's employees despite another employer paying hire for the same job.

These companies have discovered that there is a large market of people whose need for quick cash with no friction exists and is willing to lose money (in terms of car wear and tear) to do so.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#320

Post by freddie_mercury »

maxerickson wrote: post #313
franga2000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

This is pedantic, but service workers in the US are generally payed the legal minimum wage. The distinction is that a different law exists for that category of workers, not that they aren't paid legal wages. Other countries do make exceptions to their pay rules. For instance, younger people that are likely to be working temporarily may be excluded from benefits rules.

This is even more pedantic but no, service workers are not generally payed the legal minimum wage.

Wage theft by employers is over $20 billion a year (more than all other kinds of theft combined) and wage theft happens predominantly to those being paid minimum wage.

17% of low wage earners are subject to wage theft -- 2.4 million people just in the 10 most populous states -- and the average amount of theft is $64 a week. Which doesn't sound like a lot but is 25% of their weekly wages.

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