Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

payup.wtf

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 572 posts

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#291

Post by jakobegger »

eru wrote: post #265
franga2000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

Germany didn't even have a minimum wage until fairly recently. The Scandinavian countries don't have a minimum wage either, see eg https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/nordic-countri... Neither does Switzerland. What's with the American obsession with outlawing poor people's jobs? (My adopted home country, one of the richest places in the world and one of the best places to live, doesn't have a minimum wage…

> Germany didn't even have a minimum wage until fairly recently

We don't really have a minimum wage in Austria either, but wages are regulated per industry. So employers are still required to pay certain wages, even though we don't have a general minimum wage.

And there's no such thing as including tips in the wage, tips are always extra.

(There is one major loophole, of course, which is hiring people as contractors, but that requires convincing the authorities that your employees are not really employees)

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#292

Post by eik3_de »

michaelt wrote: post #275
eik3_de wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/hr? It’s voluntary. Can they find something better to do with their time? Maybe because they want to do something purposeful with their life, even if it doesn't earn them any net cash? Maybe a "Thank you" and a smile from a delivery customer makes for a better day then just being "lazy" and watching TV/consuming social media?

I find it hard to believe someone who wanted to work for free on something meaningful would choose to volunteer for DoorDash in preference to a normal charity?

I don't think most of them were in a situation to say "I want to work for free" and then chose DoorDash (per definition a for-profit job) over volunteering for charity (per definition a non-profit job). I could imagine they found the job, it generated some cash flow and only they later realized that the math doesn't work out.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#293

Post by Nursie »

eru wrote: post #265
franga2000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

Germany didn't even have a minimum wage until fairly recently. The Scandinavian countries don't have a minimum wage either, see eg https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/nordic-countri... Neither does Switzerland. What's with the American obsession with outlawing poor people's jobs? (My adopted home country, one of the richest places in the world and one of the best places to live, doesn't have a minimum wage…

The minimum wage ensures that those 'poor people' can afford to eat.

The countries you mention don't need minimum wages set because they have other mechanisms or even just social norms that ensure nobody is having to work 8 jobs to try to feed their kids.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#294

Post by jakobegger »

eru wrote: post #264
Majestic121 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can, it works pretty well in a lot of places in the world.

I guess I should have been a bit more clear. When customers tip, and total wages in the tipped jobs are thus higher than in the non-tipped alternatives, workers will change jobs until expected total wages are about equal. What works in other countries, eg Japan or Australia, is that different social norms lead to much less total tipping. But you can't transform eg American into Japan or Australia at a whim. It's up t…

I don't think the system will fix itself by banning tips. That doesn't help anyone.

What society should do is require a decent base pay (regardless of tip). That way I know that my server can make ends meet if I tip them or not, and tipping them becomes a curtesy, not a necessity.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#296

Post by sschueller »

ace32229 wrote: post #234
sschueller wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can, stop using and supporting these predatory companies. Never use Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Uber Eats, AirBnB etc. No exception irregardless how easy or cheap it may be. It's a small sacrifice but can and will make a difference. Using these services to me is like asking a waiter to pay for part of my meal. When it comes around to paying the bill are you able to face someone and ask them to pay for part of what they…

Out of curiosity, what made you put AirBnB in that list?

http://insideairbnb.com/index.html

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#297

Post by Nursie »

eru wrote: post #264
Majestic121 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can, it works pretty well in a lot of places in the world.

I guess I should have been a bit more clear. When customers tip, and total wages in the tipped jobs are thus higher than in the non-tipped alternatives, workers will change jobs until expected total wages are about equal. What works in other countries, eg Japan or Australia, is that different social norms lead to much less total tipping. But you can't transform eg American into Japan or Australia at a whim. It's up t…

It's not up to customers if the laws in the US are changed to stop the (IMHO abusive) practice of paying below minimum and then expecting tips to make up the shortfall.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#298

Post by hurricanetc »

frobozz wrote: post #286
hurricanetc wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misconception. Service workers must be paid the higher of state, city, or federal minimum wage. If wages plus tips are not equal to or greater than the minimum wage then the minimum wage must be paid. If everyone suddenly stopped tipping then service workers would default to minimum wage. For anyone with a different experience your employer was breaking the law. But what I think you’ll find is that it is the service…

> it is the service workers themselves who prefer working for tips. I'm sure they'd prefer a sensible wage + tips, over a sub-minimum wage supplemented by tips.

I’m sure most people would prefer more money. But if service workers were paid “normal” wages people wouldn’t feel guilted into tipping.

Minimum wage in NYC is $15/hour and $10/hour for food service workers. Some restaurants have started paying their servers more and not allowing tips. But are the employees actually earning more? I doubt it.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#299

Post by franga2000 »

wolco wrote: post #213
franga2000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other country other than the US where paying service workers below minimum wage is legal or acceptable? I've been around a fair bit of Europe and surroundings and I've never encountered the US system.

Canada, Africa and the Middle East.

Why do I keep expecting Canada to be better than it actually is?

Although, a quick web search shows that at least in Quebec, minimum wage for tipped workers is 1.9$ lower vs. not applying at all in many US states - better, but still sad.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#300

Post by _vrmm »

Another one of those businesses that survive by worker slavery. Shameful, they all should go bankrupt.

Also, tips in a lot of jobs in USA are now basic for a job to be sustainable, incredible. Maybe 'Tip' is no longer the appropriate word for that.

How are they allowed to pay such a misery?

Post reply on HN