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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#311

Post by golemotron »

chowells wrote: post #283
golemotron wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can not be any sexism without the behavior being based on sex, and it in this case it isn't clear that it was. That's an assumption people are making.

That's not true at all. Sexism comes from the conclusions others draw, not the intentions of the participants. If this makes you uncomfortable, embrace that discomfort. It's the first step to understanding this.

The second is that you have a choice about the conclusions you draw. Some don't automatically impute malice or harm. That's the way forward for society.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#312

Post by weberc2 »

chowells wrote: post #280
golemotron wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be the thing that is most problematic about 'call out' culture. We assume that we know the intention of people's behavior (sexism) and how it is received (offense). In many cases there may be neither. But I'm just cynical enough to suspect that this many not matter to people who 'call out.' They feel that they are on a mission to make society better regardless of whether there are problems in any individua…

No, it's not problematic at all. The behavior was unacceptable. The victim being so used to it that they don't notice the offense doesn't make it not an offense. You can never hide behind "the victim said it was ok". You need to examine the behavior. Consider the environment in which it took place. Consider the statement the behavior makes to those observing it. Maybe even consider why the perpetrator was behaving th…

It's only a matter of time before more people realizing that making simplistic, gender-based judgments in the name of "combating sexism" is a really bad idea, and probably questionably motivated.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#313

Post by vacri »

golemotron wrote: post #222
xor1 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see any "'call out' culture" here. Note that the person in the audience did not say "you are sexist". The words were "Let her speak please". Specific, and to the point. The "call out" is the Facebook post and the subsequent social media firestorm that follows it.

Exactly. People have different levels of introversion and extroversion. Moderators sometimes over talk introverts when they feel they have to keep things moving. It may not have anything to do with sexism but because the the sexes of the participants it's turned into a conversation that may have no base in the reality of the situation. It is arrogance to assume that we know the mind of another well enough to call thi…

A moderator should ask probing questions of a panelist before just taking the reins and filling in for an apparent introvert.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#314

Post by scott_s »

golemotron wrote: post #222
xor1 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see any "'call out' culture" here. Note that the person in the audience did not say "you are sexist". The words were "Let her speak please". Specific, and to the point. The "call out" is the Facebook post and the subsequent social media firestorm that follows it.

Exactly. People have different levels of introversion and extroversion. Moderators sometimes over talk introverts when they feel they have to keep things moving. It may not have anything to do with sexism but because the the sexes of the participants it's turned into a conversation that may have no base in the reality of the situation. It is arrogance to assume that we know the mind of another well enough to call thi…

We don't need to know one's mind to call their behavior sexist. If, in a particular setting, they do something objectionable to the women and not the men, that is sexist behavior.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#315

Post by Houshalter »

I have a theory that women are less likely to be, I guess the word would be "assertive", than men. That is a stereotype, but sometimes there's truth in stereotypes. I mean I recall studies that women are less likely to ask for raises or are worse at haggling.

So if a person is speaking over you and rambling on, perhaps a man is more likely to speak up or butt in at the first opportunity. The quote in the top comment sort of hints at this. That she didn't feel as annoyed by his talking and so didn't speak up. I haven't watched the whole thing, but other comments mention he does this over male panelists as well.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#316

Post by Frqy3 »

discombobulate wrote: post #159

I received a delivery from a black gentleman today. Whilst reaching out for the package I was concerned he may think I'm racist if I wasn't excessively nice to him. I think I may be uncomfortable around minorities for fear of being labelled a racist. I have a similar worry around women. I think becoming racist would solve my concerns -- at least in my own mind. However, it doesn't make any sense to do that: individua…

Have you been tested for Autism/Asperger's?

I ask because I am on the spectrum and have a similar anxiety with how people will think of me during interactions. This stems from a difficulty in reading other people. Over many years I have developed internal scripts of standard behaviour for interacting with people in different circumstances. So long as I am able to stay on script, I have learnt to worry less about what people think.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#318

Post by saint_fiasco »

jccalhoun wrote: post #229
randomguy23 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wear sexism-colored glasses, don't be surprised if everything looks like sexism. That, I think, is what she's getting at. If you're always looking for a slight, always looking for a snide remark, you'll find it. Perception shapes reality.

"If you wear sexism-colored glasses, don't be surprised if everything looks like sexism." and if you wear glasses that block out sexism, don't be surprised if nothing looks like sexism.

The naive people with sexism-blocking glasses are less likely to burn out and leave the field. Solve for equilibrium.

It doesn't matter if people perceive extra sexism or block much of the sexism. It matters which strategy leads to less sexism in objective reality, not in perception.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#319

Post by and0 »

DanBC wrote: post #301
theWatcher37 wrote: post #288

Outrage culture front and center. Time to pull out our morality antennas and virtue signal how pious we are in support.

> virtue signal Your use of this vapid phrase is itself a form of virtue signalling.

Someone who unironically uses "virtue signalling" very conveniently signals that they're not worth listening to. It's kinda nice, actually.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#320

Post by awkward »

ideonexus wrote: post #106

If you see this kind of behavior in the workplace, I highly recommend the technique of "echoing" as a means of overcoming it. In meetings I've seen it happen many times where an introvert makes a brilliant point, which gets completely lost when some manager who likes to hear themselves talk follows them. When this happens, I find it incredibly powerful to raise my hand and say, "I'd like to bring us back to [introver…

You need to keep in mind that the attribution of credit is important in echoing - simply bringing the subject back up will be seen as stealing the point.
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